Another GM Bailout?

[NaomiDstangLvr]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/

[smytty]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/Hell why not, i mean they need to recupe some of that 200mill they just sent to Europe for Manchester United.
Plus when you only need to pay a portion back its a good deal...:mad:

[redfirepearlgt]

Why do they need another bailout? Why, I've spotted two Chevy Volts on the road in the last year of my travels since they started making them. :rolleyes: They should be rolling in money by now.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

Why do they need another bailout? Why, I've spotted two Chevy Volts on the road in the last year of my travels since they started making them. :rolleyes: They should be rolling in money by now.

How much are them Volts? Aren't they pretty pricey??

[mad max]

I didnt agree with them when they did it the first time . Anybody remember when the airlines went bankrupt ? Last time i checked we are still flying airplanes. Gm needs to get their house in order.

[sean]

The volt is in the 50,000 area. LOL how long will you have to keep that before you really start saving money from mpg. Sink or swim gm. If you can't make it without hand outs your doing something wrong.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

50 THOUSAND DOLLARS?!? That's insane! Lol!

[Stangman]

When you aren't really taught a real "lesson" from it the first time, who's to keep you from poorly spending/mishandling money again? Oh wait.... the government.. what happened to all the other hundered or so manufacturers that have came and went since the dawn of the automobile??? Oh yeah... they went out of business.... live and let die! Soo long GM you won't be missed.

[04 Venom]

The Forbes article is an op-ed piece.

Look at GM's current 7.7 P/E ratio; $2.80 earnings per share and a 15.36% return. They are making money in the US and losing in Europe, as is the case with most of the auto makers.

I'd say bankruptcy ain't even close.

[cstreu1026]

The Volt starts at $31,465 but I recall reading that the cost to produce it was much much higher.

[50dan]

We need a government owned/run automaker. Hell the govt runs everything else! If Obama gets his ways we will all be puppets on a string!!!

[duststang]

lol and the middle class keeps srinking. seriously we need to stop fair trade and the bailouts. only ones winning are the rich (GM, Banks) and China, India and Saudi. what does it take to change and do the right thing (cut your losses and move on). instead lets keep doing he same thing expecting different results. it seems so clear why is none of the govn seeing it? must be the $$$$$$ in the way. lol want a bailout get the American people to support your business (buying your products) instead of competition and foreign products. I think Ford is doing a great job innovation and design is awsome and out of the box from previous.

[Black Horse]

If I am not mistaken...the US does still have a large stake in GM. So technically WE all own it. That means if GM goes bankrupt, it comes out of your pocket, so pony up and raise taxes to pay them out of debt once again.

And everyone wondered why Ford did it the hard way.......

[cstreu1026]

According to that article We The People own 26% or 500,000,000 shares of GM and "our" investment in the company has lost 39% of its value since the company went public. And these are the same people we are depending on to take care of us in our old age. :rolleyes:

None of this changes the fact that despite a lot of improvement they are still way behind in building quality products that people actually want to buy.

[IWRBB]

Ford got lucky timing-wise. If they hadn't mortgaged everything when they did- they'd have been in the same situation. Before the banks took the money and ran- Ford mortgaged everything for cash. Everything. Their logo, buildings, trademarks- everything they could get cash for, they did. Ford put everything on the line and said we are going to either make this work or we will go belly up. As we all know- they made it work. They are profitable again and are paying down their debt (a lot of it being all of the mortgaged property). Alan Mulally saved Ford with his leadership. William Jr knew enough to know he didn't have those leadership skills- but showed enough to step aside and bring in someone who did.

GM had no leadership at all. Nobody had to balls to say this ship is sinking and we better do something about it. Nobody would stand up the the UAW either. No, they just kept sailing the sinking ship until it actually sunk. It sunk deep, billions of dollars deep. Our representatives were stupid enough to think GM is worthy of competing in today’s market- so they threw them a huge bone. Then Obama threw them an even bigger bone (i.e. thanks for the votes all you UAW sheep!).

I wouldn't doubt that GM goes down the shitter again. They never had to sacrifice like Ford did. They never got to the point where you either performed or your job (and the enitre company) was gone. GM employees have never really faced the stark reality of "make a profit or die". They've went on with business as usual as the government placed them all on a new, slowly leaking ship.

[duststang]

Ford got lucky timing-wise. If they hadn't mortgaged everything when they did- they'd have been in the same situation. Before the banks took the money and ran- Ford mortgaged everything for cash. Everything. Their logo, buildings, trademarks- everything they could get cash for, they did. Ford put everything on the line and said we are going to either make this work or we will go belly up. As we all know- they made it work. They are profitable again and are paying down their debt (a lot of it being all of the mortgaged property). Alan Mulally saved Ford with his leadership. William Jr knew enough to know he didn't have those leadership skills- but showed enough to step aside and bring in someone who did.

GM had no leadership at all. Nobody had to balls to say this ship is sinking and we better do something about it. Nobody would stand up the the UAW either. No, they just kept sailing the sinking ship until it actually sunk. It sunk deep, billions of dollars deep. Our representatives were stupid enough to think GM is worthy of competing in today’s market- so they threw them a huge bone. Then Obama threw them an even bigger bone (i.e. thanks for the votes all you UAW sheep!).

I wouldn't doubt that GM goes down the shitter again. They never had to sacrifice like Ford did. They never got to the point where you either performed or your job (and the enitre company) was gone. GM employees have never really faced the stark reality of "make a profit or die". They've went on with business as usual as the government placed them all on a new, slowly leaking ship.

agree one thing I would like to add is that due to the bail out of GM this gave them a advantage over Ford free money to use and still cannot get it right.

[Katmandu]

If you can't make it without hand outs your doing something wrong.That goes for people too.

How many people could actually make it on their own without having had their parents and/or relative help them out (spending money, college, cars, housing, jobs etc...) after graduating high school.

A lot folks born with silver spoons in their mouths yet DENY the had help to get where they are today.

My bet is there would be a lot more folks sucking off the government's tits. :rolleyes:


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[06V6Andrew]

I think the USSR tried the whole government made vehicle thing...it didn't turn out well

[IWRBB]

That goes for people too.

How many people could actually make it on their own without having had their parents and/or relative help them out (spending money, college, cars, housing, jobs etc...) after graduating high school.

A lot folks born with silver spoons in their mouths yet DENY the had help to get where they are today.

My bet is there would be a lot more folks sucking off the government's tits. :rolleyes:


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Why do you have issues with parents giving their children money for cars, school, or housing? Is it not your job as a parent to raise and support your child? I assume you are under the school of thought that all financial assistance should stop at 18?

My dad's parents worked 2 jobs each, simply so he could get an education. They paid for him to attend public schools outside of the west end (he went to St Bernard schools- yes, it used to be nice in St Bernard back in the 50s). Later, they paid for him to attend UC Engineering school. He was the first person in the family to get a degree. They lived in the slums of Cincinnati in a cold water flat, after coming from the sticks in Kentucky to find work in the factories in Cincinnati. So don’t give me that “silver spoon” line. That makes my fucking blood boil. There’s nothing involved in the success of my family but hard work for the alst 75 years.

Guess what? My parents paid for my degree from UC Engineering school. Guess what? I'll pay for my kid's college degree as well. If your parents paid for your college, would you then turn around and NOT pay for your child's college? If not, why? Do you think it makes them a better person if they pay for it themselves?

Guess what? My parents also bought me my first car. I didn't wreck it or abuse it. I took damn good care of it. I'll buy my kids a car too- but only if they deserve one. If they work hard in school, and in general do what we ask them to do- I'll buy them a car. I blow more in ammo in a year than the cost of a decent used car- so it's really not a big deal to me one way or the other.

I *REALLY* don't get the whole "your parents gave you money for school/car/etc" jealously angle. If your child is smart, works hard, and respects his parents- why would the parent NOT help them out financially? There's nothing magic about making a kid pay for things themselves- it simply puts them in debt right from the start. If the kid is disrespectful little prick, fine- let him see how hard it really is out there. But otherwise, why handicap a 23 year old with 100K in debt from college if the parents (again the ones responsible for raising the child they squeezed out) can easily afford that?

Our family is a family. If I really needed money- my parents would give it to me. If my brother really needed money- I'd give it to him. Family is way more important than money. I can make more money for the next 30 years of my life- but I'll never get another mom, dad and brother. If your family wouldn't do the same, maybe you need to take a look at yourself, your family and your priorities.

Rant off...

[k062693w]

Why do you have issues with parents giving their children money for cars, school, or housing? Is it not your job as a parent to raise and support your child? I assume you are under the school of thought that all financial assistance should stop at 18?

My dad's parents worked 2 jobs each, simply so he could get an education. They paid for him to attend public schools outside of the west end (he went to St Bernard schools- yes, it used to be nice in St Bernard back in the 50s). Later, they paid for him to attend UC Engineering school. He was the first person in the family to get a degree. They lived in the slums of Cincinnati in a cold water flat, after coming from the sticks in Kentucky to find work in the factories in Cincinnati. So don’t give me that “silver spoon” line. That makes my fucking blood boil. There’s nothing involved in the success of my family but hard work for the alst 75 years.

Guess what? My parents paid for my degree from UC Engineering school. Guess what? I'll pay for my kid's college degree as well. If your parents paid for your college, would you then turn around and NOT pay for your child's college? If not, why? Do you think it makes them a better person if they pay for it themselves?

Guess what? My parents also bought me my first car. I didn't wreck it or abuse it. I took damn good care of it. I'll buy my kids a car too- but only if they deserve one. If they work hard in school, and in general do what we ask them to do- I'll buy them a car. I blow more in ammo in a year than the cost of a decent used car- so it's really not a big deal to me one way or the other.

I *REALLY* don't get the whole "your parents gave you money for school/car/etc" jealously angle. If your child is smart, works hard, and respects his parents- why would the parent NOT help them out financially? There's nothing magic about making a kid pay for things themselves- it simply puts them in debt right from the start. If the kid is disrespectful little prick, fine- let him see how hard it really is out there. But otherwise, why handicap a 23 year old with 100K in debt from college if the parents (again the ones responsible for raising the child they squeezed out) can easily afford that?

Our family is a family. If I really needed money- my parents would give it to me. If my brother really needed money- I'd give it to him. Family is way more important than money. I can make more money for the next 30 years of my life- but I'll never get another mom, dad and brother. If your family wouldn't do the same, maybe you need to take a look at yourself, your family and your priorities.

Rant off...







X10000000000000 !!!

[Blackout]

Well I have a first hand experience with GM and there not making since thought processes. I would not be surprised if they don't end up asking for another bailout. They still over produce parts engines and cars/trucks for projected sales. I work for DMAX which we make the Duramax Diesel. We are working mad overtime right now (which I don't have a problem with) but what makes me wonder is the reports that GM is over producing the trucks and the dealers lots are full. It is estimated that all dealers in the US are overstocked by 50% or 5 months worth of truck sales.

I work for them and I don't understand there logic....

[Katmandu]

Why do you have issues with parents giving their children money for cars, school, or housing? I don't have a damn thing wrong with parents helping their kids out. If they have the means, they SHOULD. You misunderstood my point.

Where would you (or others that had help) be WITHOUT that fortunate helping hand ??

I'm saying (above) there are a whole lot of folks in this society that have had a helping hand (yes, that's what the silver spoon is BTW.) in their's mouths that act like they did EVERYTHING on there own. Which of course is complete bullshit. :rolleyes:



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