+/-'s twin screw V centri

[redfirepearlgt]

Can anyone give me any information on +/-'s of going Centri vs. twin screw? 've decided to F/I the 13.

Any benefit of centri over twin screw? Any advise from those who may have run both types?

Are there plumbing issues with the centri? Oil change issues? Belt jump issues? Loud noisy blow off valves? heat soak issues with an air-air exchanger vs a water to air like on twin screws? What about power band, lag, etc.

As many know the 05 sported a twin screw that I loved. However a few guys from the site have me thinking of going centri now.

Nope no turbos. Just not interested.

Packages:

Roush 2.3L 9-10psi (water to air inercooled) 575HP 505T @ crank. Roush tuned. $5900.00

Vortech V-3 Si trim running 7.5-8.5psi (air to air intercooled blow through setup) 605HP 473T @ crank. approx $5400.00 (haven't gotten a local price yet).

Car is completely stock with the 3.31 gear and 6 speed manual. Will run the Vortech or Roush tune received with the kit that is proved out.

Thanks

[JGavey]

I would get with Beefcake on the vortech kit. We just had one on the roller made 506whp.

[Walter]

Have you looked into the Edelbrock blower?

[redfirepearlgt]

I would get with Beefcake on the vortech kit. We just had one on the roller made 506whp.

Looking for information on technical aspects. Thanks. Beef sold me the 2013. Good guy.

[redfirepearlgt]

Have you looked into the Edelbrock blower?

Just looked at them again Walter. Did not realize that they were offering an extended power train warranty of 5/60K, and make 500+ RWHP on 5psi. Need to look into them as well if I decide to stick with a twin screw setup. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[2Fast4You]

I think Beefcake and Finishline could definitely be a great resource on the Vortech. Craig down at Cincy offers the Procharger packages, maybe see what they have to offer. Or even Adam over at Easy Street. You have some of the best local resources to help make a decision or just to confuse you more. LOL

[cobraman302]

Personally speaking, I am a fan of the roots/twin screw blowers. I have had cobras and lightnings with both styles of blowers. First off, I the torque and feeling of the twin screw blower will be a lot more pleasurable and useful on the street. Second of all, the twin screw will also work better with your stock gear since the Vortech will want you to rev the shit out of that motor to make the peak hp come out. Third, the Vortech kits I have dealt with have been a lot less dependable than a twin screw/roots. You ever wonder why gou dont see car manufacturers putting centris on cars but you see roots blowers all the time? You mentioned a couple problems, and the biggest with me is belt alignment issues that can come from a centri head unit. Most kits have the headunit in there backwards an it's damn near impossible to work on anything without pulling the entire headunit off, just a pain if you ask me. Not as bad as turbo....but it's next in line lol. 4th, this is not fact but rather what I hear...so take it with a grain of salt...the centris ate not as efficient as a twin screw, and they tend to be noisier at idle ( to me they don't sound good at idle unless you have a race headunit) but I love the scream of a twin screw when you lay into it. If it were my car, I wouldn't hesitate getting a twin screw over any centri kit out there unless I were building a race car...then I'd go turbo anyways.

Sorry for the long winded response.

[Blackout]

I would personally want a twin screw over the centi just because of how it makes power. The centri just takes higher rpms to make power. I have had all three but it's just depends on what you want.

[redfirepearlgt]

THanks for the feedback. I appreciate the detailed responses. Sometimes things can't be said in 256 characters or less. Thanks Rick.

I love twin screw units. redfirepearl sported the Saleen TS. So I think that I will stick with that. And a very good point. No I have never seen a centri on a factory car setup. So I will stay true to my twin scsrew roots. Thanks gang!

[firestang70]

Well I guess I will be the odd ball out on this one. I am a huge fan of TS blowers on 2v,3v,and older 4v cars. My 3v was in the 460-470 rwhp range, the first 2 gears were useless on street tires with anything more than half throttle. Felt great but tires are expensive.

Now the Coyote is a different animal(no pun intended). The low end is much more robust. TS will be too much low end grunt on street tires. A centuri will be more street friendly. It takes no time for that 5.0 to build revs and be in the powerband. Will not instantly blow the tires off on the street. If I were to go FI on my Coyote it would either be turbo or centuri.

Any choice on these are great choices. I just think the centuri will be more street friendly and easier on the wallet.
You should get KenB TT kit, they are BAD TO THE BONE!

[Adam@S&MMotorsports]

My vote is for centrifugal. They are way less parasitic than a roots. Even with an air to air it will have much lower intake temps than a roots or twin screw. Also it will be more usable power since the car will roll out before applying power. Not that it is a concern but fuel economy should be better with a centri as well. Centris were used in the 60's on certain factory Shelby models and some Euro cars more recently. I believe the cost of production was more of a factor than reliability. Roots and Screw blowers are fun and have their place, but I think you would be happier with a centri:bigthumb KenBs turbo kits are badass, that's where my money would go;)

[redfirepearlgt]

Thanks again. Time for some more meditating. Will be SC either way. I've got a few months to save for it and that gives me time to way this feedback. Thanks.

[2Kblacksleeper]

Chad, I have been back and forth also on this issue.

I will be putting it on a stock block for now. Then in a few years I will do a built short block.

When i go F/I I only want to buy 1 head unit. I have been between the procharger F1 pullied down with a cog set up. A 3.6 Kenne Bell or the equilivant Whipple, and maybe the Vortech. Then when i go built I dont need another head unit.

I like the roots/twin screw because of the instant power. My concern is will i just be blowing off the tires when i need to hook? I also have a 6sp 3.31 gear GT.

I like the the centri makes power as you increase rpms nut i dont want to rev it to the moon either.

I like Kenb's kit alot. I have been following it since the begaining. I am courious though how is regular maintaince changed with a centri or turbo set up. Like if you need to change belts or something like that?

Does anyone have any insight on that?

Thanks in advance.

John

[cstreu1026]

I say twin screw or turbo. I like the fact that positive displacement blowers come on instantly but like Dale said that is at the expense of the rear tires. With a turbo you always have the option to baby it and it will drive like a stock car. I think most if not all of the big blower companies are offering extended warranties.

[redfirepearlgt]

I spoke directly to Vortech today. They do not have the kit with their tune ready yet for the 2013 models. JIC anyone was considering one for their 2013. The 2011,2012 is out obviously. Was told that the vortech setup with their tune that will have an optional warranty package on the power train for the 2013 (for those who care) will be out just after January 1, 2013.

JOSH - the Vortech is self oiled and requires 7500 mile oil change periodicity after the breakin period oil change, which I believe the tech at Vortech stated was to be done at 2500 miles after install. The kit comes with three bottles of oil. One only needed per change. With regard to engine oil, I ran 5w20 full synthetic vice blend and changed the oil every 3K.

The Saleen I ran o nthe 05 had a 50K oil change planned maintenance BTW. I am assuming most twin screws (if self lubricated) are in the 25-50K range unless otherwise stated.

[redfirepearlgt]

BTW some vortech series are engine lubed and not self lubed. I am referring to the specific model being used in the 2011,2012 and soon on the 2013 GT model.

[beefcake]

IMO, and I may be biased,

The vortech / paxton has it hands down on these cars.

The potential, especially with the Paxton kit is ridiculous. I am making 1003rwhp with the JT trim vortech (same head unit as the 2200)

As Adam mentioned, iat's are going to be better over the t/s type blowers, less heat soak,

Like Dale said, you already have plenty of useable torque with the new 5.0's to put all you need down to the ground and get her moving.

Now you have cost. I can get you a Vortech / Paxton for way less than any other setup out there.

I can get you my "beefcake special" which gives you enough to make 700-750 rwhp for $1500 less than the roush or other p/d setups

Now. In the centri vs centri debate. Vortech / Paxton vs Procharger.

Vortech / Paxton (cheaper)

Less stress on the crank, the procharger hangs an extra pulley off the front of the engine. I've already seen a couple prochargers snap cranks on these.

The V/P uses the stock tensioner and adds no more stress to the crank than the stock setup.

Intercooler - The V/P intercooler is superior than even the stage 2 procharger.

Air Intake - The procharger places the inlet against the firewall and is sucking in a ton of hot air, whereas the V/P can utilize the stock airbox and pull in real fresh air.

Hands down the best way to go.

I have sold probably 20 of these kits over the last few months, just for 5.0's, mostly with Lund remote tunes by Ken B with great success.

As Jon said, even with the smaller v3, we put 506 down on their dyno. What he didn't mention was, the dyno at 6500 maxed out the 150mph (the guy had stock gears, and oversized tires), and pulled the power down, but it was still pulling back up. And, we let off at 7000, where it would make another 15 or so to 7500.

A stock vortech kit should make in the neighborhood of 525-540 rwhp on a safe 93 tune. The paxton will do even more.

[redfirepearlgt]

Thanks Terry. Appreciate the feedback.

[2Kblacksleeper]

Beef, can you pm me the special price. I'm hoping to get get paid back for a loan I made later this month.

[IWRBB]

I drove a 5.0 Mustang and it was not impressed by the low end grunt- at all. Then I drove a F150 with the 5.0 and it had no torque compared to my lowly 5.4L 2V. Of course, I have a twin screw blower on my Cobra, so it's gonna to take some power to impress.

My opinion is that nothing beats a roots/TS blower on a street car. How can you argue with full boost at any RPM? From idle to redline, the TS will push 16 PSI into my engine in any gear as long as the pedal is mashed. If you plan to set the car up for drag racing though, i.e. where the RPMs never drop below 5000, go for the centi blower.

[cobraman302]

I drove a 5.0 Mustang and it was not impressed by the low end grunt- at all. Then I drove a F150 with the 5.0 and it had no torque compared to my lowly 5.4L 2V. Of course, I have a twin screw blower on my Cobra, so it's gonna to take some power to impress.

My opinion is that nothing beats a roots/TS blower on a street car. How can you argue with full boost at any RPM? From idle to redline, the TS will push 16 PSI into my engine in any gear as long as the pedal is mashed. If you plan to set the car up for drag racing though, i.e. where the RPMs never drop below 5000, go for the centi blower.

Agree 100%

[redfirepearlgt]

I drove a 5.0 Mustang and it was not impressed by the low end grunt- at all. Then I drove a F150 with the 5.0 and it had no torque compared to my lowly 5.4L 2V. Of course, I have a twin screw blower on my Cobra, so it's gonna to take some power to impress.

My opinion is that nothing beats a roots/TS blower on a street car. How can you argue with full boost at any RPM? From idle to redline, the TS will push 16 PSI into my engine in any gear as long as the pedal is mashed. If you plan to set the car up for drag racing though, i.e. where the RPMs never drop below 5000, go for the centi blower.

Since the last setup was a TS I was leaning toward Vortech this time. But then again everyone and their brother seems to be doing that setup which brings me back to being a little different which is why I went Saleen on the 05, and why I have a GHIG (green) mustang and not another red mustang. Not sure. Will haveto have a few more face to face chats with people in the expertise field and see. I must admit, the Vortech black package looks very nice under the hood of those 11's and 12's I have seen on line so far. I like the resuse of the engine dressup plate. But that Roush TS sits sweet atop that long block as well.

Its not going to be a race car, only a T/T thing once in a while and something to amuse the cruise in crowd with. Just nice to have a little package under the hood. Something to make it not just another factory mustang. May even leave the factory exhaust on it for added sleeper factor.

[2Fast4You]

There is a lot of good points to this, do what makes you happy Chad...

[beefcake]

I drove a 5.0 Mustang and it was not impressed by the low end grunt- at all. Then I drove a F150 with the 5.0 and it had no torque compared to my lowly 5.4L 2V. Of course, I have a twin screw blower on my Cobra, so it's gonna to take some power to impress.

My opinion is that nothing beats a roots/TS blower on a street car. How can you argue with full boost at any RPM? From idle to redline, the TS will push 16 PSI into my engine in any gear as long as the pedal is mashed. If you plan to set the car up for drag racing though, i.e. where the RPMs never drop below 5000, go for the centi blower.

the new 5.0 makes more power and the same torque as the 03/04 cobra did with a s/c

your used to driving a 16 psi terminator, of course your not going to be impressed

go drive a stock terminator, your probably going to think the same thing.

i can guarantee 16 psi on my 5.0 will more than hang with the term at 16 psi

[beefcake]

sexy

http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/Turn5/42126?$s7product$

[beefcake]

even better

[redfirepearlgt]

NO! This is sexy!!!!

A 1965 GT350 Shelby Mustang - one of a kind with TWO paxton SC's. No idea what the 289hypo made at the rear wheels. Looking at this picture makes me think of slow motion running scenes on Baywatch.:D

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/redfirepearlgt/100_0365.jpg

OH! AND ITS MY DAMN THREAD AND I WILL HIJACK IT IF I WANT TO! LOL!!!!!!

[smytty]

I bet boost leak with dryer hose sucks lol

[74 mach]

I do not believe that hose bled off much boost as the combination made 540 rwhp on pump gas, and drove like a stock car.
We built the '66 Shelby in 2007, and it was a very interesting project.

[mad max]

even better

That looks badass

[redfirepearlgt]

I do not believe that hose bled off much boost as the combination made 540 rwhp on pump gas, and drove like a stock car.
We built the '66 Shelby in 2007, and it was a very interesting project.

Thought it was a 65. My bad. My oldest friends dad had a 65 shelby gt350 with the single paxton setup and it made 430 flywheel (one of many shelbys he owned). I had the priv of riding in it once...just once. And was that a ride. It hooked me on mustangs from that day forward. His dad's name was Gene Berry a huge Mustang/Shelby/Ford buff and owner of some 85+ mustangs in his lifetime aside from others. And none short of perfection. Mr. Berry went to be with God a few years back. There was never a better man to meet in the mustang community. Several as good but none better. It was my privilege to have known him, befriended him, and to have even sat at his dinner table on occasion.

[IWRBB]

the new 5.0 makes more power and the same torque as the 03/04 cobra did with a s/c

your used to driving a 16 psi terminator, of course your not going to be impressed

go drive a stock terminator, your probably going to think the same thing.

i can guarantee 16 psi on my 5.0 will more than hang with the term at 16 psi

I'm not in boost just driving around. So I'm comparing a 4.6 w/8.5:1 compression to a 5.0 w/11:1 compression. Just taking off from a light, the 5.0 did not feel strong. It was gutless in the F150. I'm sure at WOT it goes just fine.. but for the other 99% of the time, it seems weak. I know it's better than a 4.6 and the real issue is how heavy the new Mustangs and F150 are- it's not the engine. But a TS will give you more low end torque even out of boost. Those rotors move air into the engine no matter what. As I've pullied it down for more boost over time, I could tell it was more responsive each time - at all throttle openings. A centrifugal blower may be similar though in that regard.

[redfirepearlgt]

I'm not in boost just driving around. So I'm comparing a 4.6 w/8.5:1 compression to a 5.0 w/11:1 compression. Just taking off from a light, the 5.0 did not feel strong. It was gutless in the F150. I'm sure at WOT it goes just fine.. but for the other 99% of the time, it seems weak. I know it's better than a 4.6 and the real issue is how heavy the new Mustangs and F150 are- it's not the engine. But a TS will give you more low end torque even out of boost. Those rotors move air into the engine no matter what. As I've pullied it down for more boost over time, I could tell it was more responsive each time - at all throttle openings. A centrifugal blower may be similar though in that regard.

On boost I have experienced the same with the 05 twin screw on response. Takes less throttle to be into boost with smaller pulley which goes to reason.

On weights - you are incorrect. The 2013 amazingly is lighter. Read the sheets. I was surprised myself. Chances are the cobra makes more of its torque much earlier in the rpm band due to the twin screw, where as the 2013 is making peek torque later in the band. That would explain the "feel" difference IMO. And feel is a good deal of the fun I agree.

2004 terminator coupe- curb weight 3665 lbs.
http://www.maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=327

2013 Mustang GTmanual - curb weight 3618 lbs.
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_MustangGT_Specs.pdf

[Walter]

New 5.0 > 03-04 Cobra IMO.

[cobraman302]

New 5.0 > 03-04 Cobra IMO.

I would sure hope so being that they are 9 years newer and cost about $15k more than you can pick up an 03-04 Cobra for right now :lol:

Straight out of the box, stock for stock, I would agree. Mod for mod, I don't think I would be so quick as to agree with that statement, if at all.

[beefcake]

I would sure hope so being that they are 9 years newer and cost about $15k more than you can pick up an 03-04 Cobra for right now :lol:

Straight out of the box, stock for stock, I would agree. Mod for mod, I don't think I would be so quick as to agree with that statement, if at all.

new for new, they are about the same price, and that's with 9 years of inflation.

quite a few guys running 10's, NA in these cars, tons running low 11's

far superior to the 03/04 cobra

[Walter]

I would sure hope so being that they are 9 years newer and cost about $15k more than you can pick up an 03-04 Cobra for right now :lol:

Straight out of the box, stock for stock, I would agree. Mod for mod, I don't think I would be so quick as to agree with that statement, if at all.

Just an opinion. Seen your fusion going down the road the other day, looks real good. I need to lower wifes.

[smytty]

I have a 13 gt and i agree, with the trq comment.. I think it has alot to do with the drive by wire BS on the cars...
Now i will say once you get over 3k on the new 5.0s all hell breaks loose...

Im a big fan of the Termis and i think Ford put better parts and more love into that car then the new 5.0s.... I still love my new 5.0 though and once you start modding them they get impressive...

I think theres a few threads on SVT about people noticing the new 5.0s producing less trq then the Termis with the same boost...

[beefcake]

I have a 13 gt and i agree, with the trq comment.. I think it has alot to do with the drive by wire BS on the cars...
Now i will say once you get over 3k on the new 5.0s all hell breaks loose...

Im a big fan of the Termis and i think Ford put better parts and more love into that car then the new 5.0s.... I still love my new 5.0 though and once you start modding them they get impressive...

I think theres a few threads on SVT about people noticing the new 5.0s producing less trq then the Termis with the same boost...

the drive by wire will make them more "sluggish", once you tune them, that's all gone

with the cobra the cable controlled what the car was doing. so if you hit it, it went, not the case with these.

[redfirepearlgt]

the drive by wire will make them more "sluggish", once you tune them, that's all gone

with the cobra the cable controlled what the car was doing. so if you hit it, it went, not the case with these.

I concurr. Had similar findings with the 05. The 13 however seems much better stock wise than the 05's were with regard to stock throttle response, or maybe I am just used to it now.

[IWRBB]

So are you saying Ford put torque reduction strategies all over the thottle map to protect the Chinese transmission?

My 94 Cobra had that crap to keep the glass jawed T-5 alive... it was so much better once the FMS extender (remember THOSE?) went on there. Of course, the T5 was whining like a little bitch within 5000 miles too.

If you tune it, that protection is gone, so how are those new Chinese trans holding up with the engine fully "unleashed"?

[redfirepearlgt]

So are you saying Ford put torque reduction strategies all over the thottle map to protect the Chinese transmission?

My 94 Cobra had that crap to keep the glass jawed T-5 alive... it was so much better once the FMS extender (remember THOSE?) went on there. Of course, the T5 was whining like a little bitch within 5000 miles too.

If you tune it, that protection is gone, so how are those new Chinese trans holding up with the engine fully "unleashed"?

Yes this has been confirmed. Torque is being managed as you state. It is noticeable when shifting spirited. As soon as the tires chirp you feel a slight hesitation then off it goes again. No its not Traction Assistant. That is the first thing shut off in my car before pulling it out of the shed. Makes me really doubt doing anything to it now. More research needs to be done outside the internet.