HP vs TQ! Which one wins?

[331lx]

Alright guys I was browsing on the corral at some threads and never got a clear answer. Which one will get ur car from point a to point b faster. So all u bangerz which one do you guys prefer to have more of.

[2007ShelbyCobra]

hp will get u there faster, torque will you get you there easier. Plain and simple

[Goober]

Its all the same, one is just a formula of another. I'd rather have my torque curve peak higher in the revs to make it useable IE: Pull like a bitch on the top end.

[Black Horse]

Torque gets you going, horsepower get you flying

[331lx]

So if u have vehicle A makes 350hp/400tq and vehicle b makes 400hp/350tq then car b is gonna win in the 1320 if all else is equal.

[Whyucryn]

Tq starts the race....HP finishes it!!

[2007ShelbyCobra]

So if u have vehicle A makes 350hp/400tq and vehicle b makes 400hp/350tq then car b is gonna win in the 1320 if all else is equal.

in this situation, id be willing to bet A, if this was a half mile, B

As stated, the curve and where it makes what power is essential

[Rick93coupe]

Honestly, It would much easier for you to google " explain hp and tq ". There's so much info out there about it, you could read for days.

[90fastgt]

In other words you need a little bit of both

[Goober]

So if u have vehicle A makes 350hp/400tq and vehicle b makes 400hp/350tq then car b is gonna win in the 1320 if all else is equal.
Car b. Just by those numbers its telling me that car A is petering out past 5252 rpm, where b while having a lower peak torque number has a broader curve and making more use of the torque (area under the curve) in the useable "racing" range.

Edit: this is just an assumption based off the hp equation. (Tq*rpm)/5252.

Much more would need to be known about both combos.

[331lx]

A common comparison I read was a Honda s2000 makes 240hp at like 8k and only 163ftlbs vs a mustang making 225hp/290tq and the mustang wins up until half mile.

[331lx]

Tq starts the race....HP finishes it!!

Question is how much hp does it take to catch up in the short 1320 for the amount u lost at the beginning from lack of torque

[90fastgt]

In other words you need a little bit of both

[Mista Bone]

Car b. Just by those numbers its telling me that car A is petering out past 5252 rpm, where b while having a lower peak torque number has a broader curve and making more use of the torque (area under the curve) in the useable "racing" range.

Edit: this is just an assumption based off the hp equation. (Tq*rpm)/5252.

Much more would need to be known about both combos.

Depends on the gearing.

a 360 hp/510 tq motor (Buick) from 1970 gave Hemi's and LS6's fits.

Torque wins races, Horsepower sells cars.

[331lx]

Reason I ask this is I am looking at new Intakes and wanna buy the right one the first time. I shift at about 6200 at the track so I don't get super high in rpms but I want a intake that don't fall off at around 5k but don't want one that's a dog in lower rpms either which one are you guys running.

[Mista Bone]

Reason I ask this is I am looking at new Intakes and wanna buy the right one the first time. I shift at about 6200 at the track so I don't get super high in rpms but I want a intake that don't fall off at around 5k but don't want one that's a dog in lower rpms which one are you guys running.

Figure you have a 2000-2200 rpm powerband to play with between peak TQ and peak HP. The intake, cam, heads and headers all need to be part of the combo. Mismatch the combo and it'll run like a dog. Think each part of the combo through and you have a sleeper that will shit and get!

[331lx]

I always thought that's why turbo cars were so fast was because the tq they produce through the powerband

[Goober]

Depends on the gearing.

a 360 hp/510 tq motor (Buick) from 1970 gave Hemi's and LS6's fits.

Torque wins races, Horsepower sells cars.

But we both know that HP number was sandbagged to hell and back.

[heyitsmepugsley]

tq is the grunt that gets us moving and hp is the force that pulls us...thats a quote from a small block big inch ford book i have.

[Goober]

Figure you have a 2000-2200 rpm powerband to play with between peak TQ and peak HP. The intake, cam, heads and headers all need to be part of the combo. Mismatch the combo and it'll run like a dog. Think each part of the combo through and you have a sleeper that will shit and get!

This is the best piece of tech out of this whole damn thread!

[Goober]

Reason I ask this is I am looking at new Intakes and wanna buy the right one the first time. I shift at about 6200 at the track so I don't get super high in rpms but I want a intake that don't fall off at around 5k but don't want one that's a dog in lower rpms either which one are you guys running.

What intake are you running now?

[Mista Bone]

This is the best piece of tech out of this whole damn thread!

it even works for Hondas....usable powerband.

I wasn't joking when I said I used my time with V8's to mess with my 4 cylinders.

2000 rpm between peaks, flat TQ curve, then valve float!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Honda/RR/D15B7dyno.jpg

But things have changed so much since I played with a V8

[Maximus]

Blah blah blah...your shit still runs 14s!!!:flipoff:

[Mista Bone]

Blah blah blah...your shit still runs 14s!!!:flipoff:

KMA Cracker

Hopefully I'll need about 20 minutes on the dyno soon, 3-5 runs with AF.

Not like you are busy.....:flipoff:

[Goober]

it even works for Hondas....usable powerband.

I wasn't joking when I said I used my time with V8's to mess with my 4 cylinders.

2000 rpm between peaks, flat TQ curve, then valve float!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m307/bonespec/Honda/RR/D15B7dyno.jpg

But things have changed so much since I played with a V8

But does it have enough torque to pull a tampon outta bucket of grease?

[331lx]

What intake are you running now?

Gt40. I was lookin at the holley systemax, and the eddy rpm 2.

[331lx]

The old setup had incredible low and midrange for what it was but it
had stock heads choking it out up top

[90fastgt]

So you want your intake manifold an cam to all be around the same rpm operating range you don't want a cam for low to midrange an a intake manifold for mid to upper you want them to work together I believe is what you guys are saying or at least that's what I had always thought also correct if I'm wrong

[Jeff88coupe]

Yep...you want the whole combination to work together....engine size, heads, intake, cam. One mismatched part an the engine will run alot worse than it should. Why you see threads on the corral all the time...why does my stroker with xxx,yyy parts only run 13's.

[Timido]

Jeff Nailed it Efficacy wins. Rotating mass of the driveline, Weight of the veh, Veh HP/Torque, Traction( Tires/suspension) Torque Converter or clutch. We dont race Dynos we race for an ET.

[beefcake]

HP HP HP! )

[700hp04mystic]

ive learned that you can never compare two car you just have to race them because if you dont have the driver mod its all thrown out the window. with a standard shift that is.

[331lx]

Jeff Nailed it Efficacy wins. Rotating mass of the driveline, Weight of the veh, Veh HP/Torque, Traction( Tires/suspension) Torque Converter or clutch. We dont race Dynos we race for an ET.

This is def true because last year my car was never on dyno but I would bet it wasn't more than 240rwhp and I outran numerous 300hp cars in the 1/4 last year.

[331lx]

My cam and Intake both have the same operating range not sure how the heads fall into there

[Jeff88coupe]

well..list out your whole combination that your running or wanting to switch to.

[331lx]

Ecam, gt40 intake, 331 stroker. Dart 190 cc heads,sct mass air, 4.10s,aluminum driveshaft, promotion built t5, 60lb injectors, 1.7 roller rockers,shorty headers. I am goin to b running e85. Only changes I was thinking was a better cam and intake.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Torque is used to overcome mass, horsepower is used to create velocity. If you don't have enough torque, you can lose mass, and since mass has a negative effect on creating velocity, less less mass equals greater velocity. In other words, torque gets you off the line, then horsepower takes over. There's a reason your hp and tq numbers are the same at 5252rpm.

An engine that makes 1000lb/ft of torque but only 100hp (think turbo diesel) is not gonna be very fast at high RPM but it'll pull stumps out of the ground. An engine that makes 1000hp and 100lb/ft of torque (think F1 engine) will barely have enough balls to get out of its own way from a stop but once it overcomes mass it's gonne be a monster at high RPM.

[331lx]

I don't rev high with my motor like a lot of drag racers my rev limit is just a hair over 6 so I need most power from 35-6

[Jeff88coupe]

Ecam, gt40 intake, 331 stroker. Dart 190 cc heads,sct mass air, 4.10s,aluminum driveshaft, promotion built t5, 60lb injectors, 1.7 roller rockers,shorty headers. I am goin to b running e85. Only changes I was thinking was a better cam and intake.


Yes...a E cam and gt40 intake have no business being on a 331 unless it's a 100% street car that gets shifted at 5K or less. 302 parts make 302 power on a 331/347 motor. 60# injectors also seem way overkill unless you plan on a poweradder (boost,dry nitrous) down the road. I ran a set of 42# injectors on my old 347 with E85 that made 401rwhp that went 11.0's n/a. There are several off the self cams that are proven performers in a 331/347. Several intake choices as well...holley systemax, tfs-r, edelbrock victor 5.0.

[Marker1989]

HP wins races, torque wins truck pulls. Real drag racers barely care about torque, that's because the car never see's peak torque RPM. It leaves the line about it and never goes low enough to make use of it. Yes the torque curve is still important but not as much as HP. Also think of Formula 1, the fastest and most advanced cars in the world, do you think they even give a damn about torque at all?

[331lx]

Yes...a E cam and gt40 intake have no business being on a 331 unless it's a 100% street car that gets shifted at 5K or less. 302 parts make 302 power on a 331/347 motor. 60# injectors also seem way overkill unless you plan on a poweradder (boost,dry nitrous) down the road. I ran a set of 42# injectors on my old 347 with E85 that made 401rwhp that went 11.0's n/a. There are several off the self cams that are proven performers in a 331/347. Several intake choices as well...holley systemax, tfs-r, edelbrock victor 5.0.
Yea I was wanting switch to a tfs 2 or a n-61 with either a eddy rpm 2 intake or holley.

[331lx]

I will be using spray is why I have such large injectors

[flyin2jz]

I don't even look at tq when I put my car on the dyno. It makes about 376lbft tq. It has been steadily losing tq each year and it keeps going faster as it makes more rwhp. I'll Gladys trade 20tq for 20hp. A car with 300 rwhp will smash a car with 250 I don't care if it makes 100lbft tq more. Buy the one with more tq will pull a boat better if that's important to u.

[331lx]

I don't even look at tq when I put my car on the dyno. It makes about 376lbft tq. It has been steadily losing tq each year and it keeps going faster as it makes more rwhp. I'll Gladys trade 20tq for 20hp. A car with 300 rwhp will smash a car with 250 I don't care if it makes 100lbft tq more. Buy the one with more tq will pull a boat better if that's important to u.

Not always true I raced a coupe that made 320hp to the wheels and mine was all stock other than gears and ecam and I pulled a 1.72 60' and he pulled a 1.75 and I beat him all three races we did. He ran 13.1s and I ran 12.6 my second time to track we were both around same weight he was 50 heavier

[331lx]

Who do you guys use for custom cams.

[Blowpastyou]

Mark@bullet

[331lx]

Mark@bullet

Have website or contact Info?

[Jeff88coupe]

For your set up. Ed Curtis at Flowtech Induction. Go to his web site...fill out his spec question sheet...send it and a check for the cam to him...done.

[90fastgt]

I have heard alot of good stuff about flow tech

[Mista Bone]

But does it have enough torque to pull a tampon outta bucket of grease?

it towed a 4000 lb Cutlass that twisted a driveshaft at Tristate that even the track crew wouldn't go down to help get off the track.

Even the Cutlass owner was shocked, I just wanted to get back to racing!

[Mista Bone]

HP wins races, torque wins truck pulls. Real drag racers barely care about torque, that's because the car never see's peak torque RPM. It leaves the line about it and never goes low enough to make use of it. Yes the torque curve is still important but not as much as HP. Also think of Formula 1, the fastest and most advanced cars in the world, do you think they even give a damn about torque at all?

The F1 cars have a 7 speeds gearbox, closely spaced, we don't have that.

If you shift at around peak HP the rpm falls back to just below peak torque, making use of the powerband.

Few noticed the slicks I ran on the Honda were only 20" tall, factor tires were almost 23" tall. This had the same effect as going from 3.23 rear gear to 3.73 just by changing tires.

[331lx]

For your set up. Ed Curtis at Flowtech Induction. Go to his web site...fill out his spec question sheet...send it and a check for the cam to him...done.

Thanks I will keep that in mind I wanna see what I can do with the setup first then I will change

[Marker1989]

The F1 cars have a 7 speeds gearbox, closely spaced, we don't have that.

If you shift at around peak HP the rpm falls back to just below peak torque, making use of the powerband.

Few noticed the slicks I ran on the Honda were only 20" tall, factor tires were almost 23" tall. This had the same effect as going from 3.23 rear gear to 3.73 just by changing tires.

I am talking about high end drag race stuff, not street cars. If you think a drag car ever sees peak torque RPM during a run think again. I don't know why you would think that we don't have closely spaced gearbox's in drag racing :confused:.

[Jeff88coupe]

Thanks I will keep that in mind I wanna see what I can do with the setup first then I will change

Have your whole combination together or at least picked before you get a new cam. The right cam will make everything work together well...or not.

[331lx]

Have your whole combination together or at least picked before you get a new cam. The right cam will make everything work together well...or not.

Definitely will so the cam will be built for rest of it thanks

[2-8-1]

Alright guys I was browsing on the corral at some threads and never got a clear answer. Which one will get ur car from point a to point b faster. So all u bangerz which one do you guys prefer to have more of.

Well, since HP is just a function of torque, then torque wins!

However, engines that make peak torque in higher RPMS are good for racing, engines that make peak torque in the lower RPMS are good for driving and towing. HP is just torque multiplied by RPM and divided by 5252.

Simplified, torque is the raw measurement of the force of an engine output, HP is that torque converted into forward motion.

[notch]

weight.....;)

[331lx]

weight.....;)

Got that in my favor it prolly b a hair under 2800 with me in it and full interior

[Mista Bone]

Got that in my favor it prolly b a hair under 2800 with me in it and full interior

Fat Stang :)

Puny Honda under 1800 before my FAT ass. :lol:

HP = TQ over a period of time, aka work.

Proper gearing makes the most difference.

[2Fast4You]

Torque will get you that great 60' and the HP will get you that great 1320'.

[331lx]

Fat Stang :)

Puny Honda under 1800 before my FAT ass. :lol:

HP = TQ over a period of time, aka work.

Proper gearing makes the most difference.

Wow that's light!

[flyin2jz]

My car never ever sees the peak tq rpm. Except maybe the first 15ft of the track. It makes around 300 tq at 7k which is about where it drops to on my shifts. So 5250 tq makes zero difference in my setup. If my car makes 300 tq max for my entire pass then surely a car that makes 400 tq for their whole pass would be faster at the track if they shift around 5600 right? Bring it. That car will get smoked by a car making a 100 less torque maybe more I assure you.

[Brandon Alsept]

Pfft screw TQ , my car hardly makes 300ft lbs of torque. Horsepower and RPM for the win

[Blowpastyou]

My car never ever sees the peak tq rpm. Except maybe the first 15ft of the track. It makes around 300 tq at 7k which is about where it drops to on my shifts. So 5250 tq makes zero difference in my setup. If my car makes 300 tq max for my entire pass then surely a car that makes 400 tq for their whole pass would be faster at the track if they shift around 5600 right? Bring it. That car will get smoked by a car making a 100 less torque maybe more I assure you.

Quote worthy... lol

[Rob]

i think it was Shelby who said ," horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"