what all needed to run e85 [Archive]

mustangrfast88

10-13-2011, 07:47 PM

i know this question probley been asked, but i am looking at runing e85. it is not very avalible where i live but can get it in the bigger cities. so what would need to be done to run 93 when cant get e85. i know the bigger pump and bigger injectors but i dont know how to pick what injectors to run i was thinking 42s or 60s. the setup is a 306, victor jr heads, victor jr intake, x cam, 11.5 to 1 hypertonic kb pistions, 10/10 crank, and thats about it thanks for the advice

cstreu1026

10-13-2011, 08:21 PM

I would think 42's would be enough.

mustangrfast88

10-13-2011, 11:06 PM

i would think so but i have heard that e85 you got to run alot of fuel and i only want to do it once

NXcoupe

10-14-2011, 12:04 AM

I make 470 rwhp on E85 and I run 42 lb injectors and a GSS340 in tank fuel pump with stock rails and lines. I use an SCT switch chip so I can switch between race gas, E85 and E70. I've done a lot of work with E85, it is a great alternative to leaded race gas. But first you have to ask yourself why you need to run E85. It does not make more power than gasoline. But it has a ton of octane for really high compression.

700hp04mystic

10-14-2011, 01:48 AM

i thought you could run more timing with e85 and that would equal more power please correct me if im wrong. aleast it did on my buddies 04 cobra!!!

cstreu1026

10-14-2011, 08:51 AM

i thought you could run more timing with e85 and that would equal more power please correct me if im wrong. aleast it did on my buddies 04 cobra!!!

On a car with a power adder yes but on a mild NA engine I doubt you would see much if any gains. I think a good rule of thumb is if you wouldn't seen gains on race gas then you won't see gains with E85.

Rich

10-14-2011, 09:58 AM

Shannon (Kennebellcobra) made some significant gains at the track by switching to e-85. His is is a 10 to 1 NA combo.

I believe the "cooling" effect helps some in the hot months.

kennebellcobra

10-14-2011, 11:58 AM

Rich is correct.... I didn't see a gain on the dyno but I did make some changes and it was a different dyno that is known to read lower.

At the track there is no doubt I seen a gain of a .1-.15 and 1-1.5 mph. I had enough passes to know what the car ran on gas and I almost always run with Steves lx, so we can judge off each other.

mustangrfast88

10-14-2011, 08:07 PM

thanks for the advice looks like i need a bigger pump and injectors and sounds like the 42s will work great and e85 is cheaper then 93 and is getting more common again

kennebellcobra

10-14-2011, 09:36 PM

I run a 255 and 39lb injectors.......

mustangrfast88

10-14-2011, 11:41 PM

sweet that what i was looking at was the 255 or a 340 and i am set on the 42 pound injectors now

PKFIRE

10-16-2011, 09:33 AM

Yeah when I converted my Srt4 to run on e85 I went from the stock 170lph to 255 and 577 to 1025cc injectors. Takes about 30% more fuel. I believe I'm running around 9.8:1 wot now. It reads 14.6:1 at idle and 12:1 to 12.5:1 on my wideband. The car makes ton more torque on e85 but starts a lot easier in the cold when running 93. I run either 93 or e85 depending on what I feel like. E85 is harder to get and cuts my mpg by about 25%. Good luck on the conversion and let us know how it goes if you decide.

mustangrfast88

10-16-2011, 11:35 AM

im gonna do it. so what did you have to do when you was switching back in forth from e85 to 93

05yellowgt

10-16-2011, 11:52 AM

The best option is an SCT chip, just flip to a different tune, one for e85 and another for your pump gas flavor of choice. Just make sure you switch after running as much out of your tank as you can. Also helps to have different E85 tunes for the blend of E85 being run depending on the time of year. There is E70, E74, and E85 for winter, spring and summer.

mustangrfast88

10-16-2011, 08:42 PM

well cincy speed will be doing the tune and the flip chip so i know that will be done correct. and then i will have to see what i will have to do about running the bottle

Jeff88coupe

10-16-2011, 08:52 PM

Just an FYI..I was told by the regional Kroger's gas station manager that the cincinnati area Kroger E85 pumps carry E85 blend year round. Every time I've gotten it from them and tested it..it's tested over 85%.

05yellowgt

10-16-2011, 08:56 PM

You will need an E85 compatible fuel solenoid if you are running a wet kit. You will also need updated jetting as well.

mustangrfast88

10-16-2011, 09:35 PM

i am running a zex kit that sprays in the cold air intake

05yellowgt

10-16-2011, 09:51 PM

Is it a wet or dry kit?

PKFIRE

10-16-2011, 11:52 PM

im gonna do it. so what did you have to do when you was switching back in forth from e85 to 93
I have a dsp handheld and just change programs between fuel changes. I drive on E until I have a gallon or less gas left.

mustangrfast88

10-17-2011, 12:14 AM

stupid question whats differance on a wet kit and a dry kit and pretty sure it is a dry kit and cincy speed will have all the tunes for the car figured out when it gets put on dyno

05yellowgt

10-17-2011, 08:20 AM

stupid question whats differance on a wet kit and a dry kit and pretty sure it is a dry kit and cincy speed will have all the tunes for the car figured out when it gets put on dyno
A wet kit sprays fuel and nitrous and a dry kit only sprays nitrous and relies on your fuel injectors to provide the extra fuel needed to go with the nitrous.

mustangrfast88

10-17-2011, 11:26 AM

well then i guess it is a wet kit

bestracing

10-17-2011, 01:55 PM

05yellowgt

10-17-2011, 02:34 PM

One thing people haven't mentioned is you need to find out if the rubber lines are E85 compatible and if your gas tank is steel you might want to coat the inside to protect it from rusting. E85 collects water and will cause rusting really quick. Also you need to make sure the o-rings are ethanol rated. Which the best are PTFE, Kalrez, FEP or Fluorosilicone. Neoprene is a good runner up but doesn't have as much heat resistance.
Good point. 88 and newer should be fine, but If his name is accurate to his current ride, he has an 88 so it will be important to check.

I've had zero issues on my 05 with the stock fuel tank, Fragola Fuel lines and fittings, Anodized aluminum fuel rails, and fuel hat, and regular FRPP 80lb/hr injectors.

In all honesty, from personal experience, the "corrosive" effects of E85 are greatly exaggerated. The only thing I've seen that has been important is that most paper fuel filters do ok, except for the glue holding them together! Go with a SS filter for sure!!

mustangrfast88

10-17-2011, 03:34 PM

the car is a 90 mustang i had a 88 when i first made the name so i think i will be fine

05yellowgt

10-17-2011, 03:46 PM

You will want to change your fuel filter after the first couple of tanks. Being that the fuel tank, unless it has been replaced is going on 21 years old now it is going to have its fair share of junk and varnish built up. The Ethanol will do an amazing job of cleaning that out for you, but it will overwhelm a fuel filter with quickness.

bestracing

10-17-2011, 05:22 PM

Good point. 88 and newer should be fine, but If his name is accurate to his current ride, he has an 88 so it will be important to check.

I've had zero issues on my 05 with the stock fuel tank, Fragola Fuel lines and fittings, Anodized aluminum fuel rails, and fuel hat, and regular FRPP 80lb/hr injectors.

In all honesty, from personal experience, the "corrosive" effects of E85 are greatly exaggerated. The only thing I've seen that has been important is that most paper fuel filters do ok, except for the glue holding them together! Go with a SS filter for sure!!
They're even saying that you need the internally teflon coated braided fuel line that the cheaper stuff is not compatable.

I don't have much experience with E85 but I have run Methanol and I've seen a lot of corrosive effects of it on AN fittings. Wound up replacing o-rings and AN ends on a barrel valve in our dragster this year.

You will want to change your fuel filter after the first couple of tanks. Being that the fuel tank, unless it has been replaced is going on 21 years old now it is going to have its fair share of junk and varnish built up. The Ethanol will do an amazing job of cleaning that out for you, but it will overwhelm a fuel filter with quickness.

I forgot about that too :lol:

kennebellcobra

10-17-2011, 06:11 PM

I didn't change a thing other than a bigger pump and injectors, everything else is stock.

I did some reading on it and there are a lot of people that have done the same with no issues for years now.

Jeff88coupe

10-17-2011, 07:39 PM

They're even saying that you need the internally teflon coated braided fuel line that the cheaper stuff is not compatable.

I don't have much experience with E85 but I have run Methanol and I've seen a lot of corrosive effects of it on AN fittings. Wound up replacing o-rings and AN ends on a barrel valve in our dragster this year.

I forgot about that too :lol:

Methanol and E85 are two totally different fuels. The cheaper pushlock hose has been proven by many many e85 users to work just fine. I set my car up with the teflon lined s/s braided hose when I was planning on running gasoline because I didn't want my garage to stink like fuel.

bestracing

10-18-2011, 08:57 AM

Methanol and E85 are two totally different fuels. The cheaper pushlock hose has been proven by many many e85 users to work just fine. I set my car up with the teflon lined s/s braided hose when I was planning on running gasoline because I didn't want my garage to stink like fuel.

Yea I know they are different fuels, just posting up what I've read about the E85.

Still has anyone seen the condition of the cheaper hose after 5 years of running just E85? Just curious, not knocking what you have said.

I have read that if you are designing a motor to run E85 that you want the compression upwards towards 13:1. One of the reasons why the flex fuel vehicles don't perform as well.

This is good info sharing, hope others can post up their experience and knowledge.

flyin2jz

10-18-2011, 11:21 AM

Kennebell a coue questions for ya. Do u tune for a different a/f ratio with e85. My combo is 10.3:1 na and currently only run 89 octane. Makes 500rwhp now at 8200 Rpms. Do u think the octane helped or cooling effect some people talk about helped? Every time I've went to higher grade gas it seems to slow down. Although I must admit I haven't tried bumping the timing up after switching fuels. Do u think the e 85 would help my na combo? Thanks for any info.

kennebellcobra

10-18-2011, 12:01 PM

Kevin....

I only have 1 tune and so far every time I have tested e85 it has been 85-86%, very consistent! Jeff talked to a rep that told him Krogers in the cincy area does not switch to e70. I did put a wideband in the car to keep an eye on it just in case.

I can only tell you my compression is just over 10:1 and there is no doubt that I seen a gain at the track, only difference is I have iron heads so maybe the cooling effect would help me more??? E85 is also a oxygenated fuel so not sure how much that comes into play.

Only real problem I have seen is it don't like the cold, acts more like a carb set up until it gets a little heat in it.

Jrcmutang

10-18-2011, 12:04 PM

kevin, i think e85 would help, look at everyone that has done the switch and made more power

flyin2jz

10-18-2011, 12:05 PM

Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to give it a try. With the Pms I use to tune I could do a couple different tunes. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated

bestracing

10-18-2011, 02:04 PM

Every time I've went to higher grade gas it seems to slow down. Although I must admit I haven't tried bumping the timing up after switching fuels.
The higher the octane the slower the burn. You should always run the lowest octane you can without causing detonation. People that claim that higher octane made them run faster were probably on the verge of detonation and loosing power due to that. The higher octane got rid of the detonation and then they had more power.

I know iron heads are more prone to detonation due to iron's poor thermal transfer. Like you said I wonder if it is a cooling effect or if maybe there might have been some pre-detonation going on with gas, too low for the knock sensor to pick up..... :confused:

05yellowgt

10-18-2011, 04:00 PM

It is the evaporation cooling properties of E85, compounded by the increased volume of fuel required due to the lower energy content that allows E85 to shine. Even the best pump gas E85 blend is only 105 octane and yet it will perform better than c16 and sometimes even on par with Q16 in situations where regular race gas would normally be used.

As others have stated, every one of my tests from Kroger E85 stations have shown 83-85% ethanol year round. If you ever have a chance to see an alcohol dragster, or even and E85 powered motor with a tall spider intake you can see frost forming on the intake after a run, even on 90 degree days, the Ethanol is pulling that much heat from air fuel charge as the ethanol evaporates. The same thing happens (sort of) on a fuel injected setup, you just cannot see it.

Under 10:1 compression you won't see much if any gains n/a. With a power adder, and especially with turbos, Ethanol fuels really shine. The ~30% in additional fuel volume results in a vastly improved spool up time. I saw over on Modularfords.com where a guy picked up over 400rwhp under the curve just from switching from c16 to E98 on a big turbo 4v cobra running through a TH400.

05yellowgt

10-18-2011, 04:08 PM

Yea I know they are different fuels, just posting up what I've read about the E85.

Still has anyone seen the condition of the cheaper hose after 5 years of running just E85? Just curious, not knocking what you have said.

I have read that if you are designing a motor to run E85 that you want the compression upwards towards 13:1. One of the reasons why the flex fuel vehicles don't perform as well.

This is good info sharing, hope others can post up their experience and knowledge.
I've been running Fragola Push lock line for 3 years and no issues so far.

kennebellcobra

01-28-2012, 05:03 PM

NXcoupe

01-28-2012, 05:23 PM

Well, I did not change the fuel filter in my purple GT, nor any other cars I've put E85 into. The factory ford fuel filters are basically a screen that is nearly 3" in diameter, so it would take a substantial amount of trash to plug it up.
Everyone would be best served to talk about their combo and personal experiences as I do. I have used braided line, pushlock hose, stock lines, stock tanks, aluminum tanks, aluminum rails, AFPR's of all different sorts, and have NEVER had an issue of something being 'corroded' by E85, and in the winter, I always get some mixture of fuel in the E70's range and the summer it's usually E80's. Rarely if ever has it been purely E85.
I have never seen an improvement in et by switching from one to another so I cannot comment on that as I always go to the track with whatever fuel I tuned the car on. I can say on an n/a vehicle I have never seen an increase on the fuel switch and it does not always want more timing due to the low octane fuel they use to mix with the alcohol. There is a ton of info on yellow bullet on this with some experts in carbuerators and race engines commenting on the subject. I am thinking of trying my race car on E85 and nitrous this spring, just because it is so cheap, but then that would present yet another learning curve that I am just not sure I'm up for yet.

flyin2jz

01-28-2012, 09:04 PM

My tuner also said that I most likely won't gain na. So I'm still on the fence.

dsmawd350

01-28-2012, 10:30 PM

Yep e75 in both kroger i have tested recently

mustangrfast88

01-29-2012, 05:14 PM

might be next season before stepping up to e85 now just gonna run 93 in it for now sence new the bigger injectors and pump

91lxnos

02-02-2012, 01:08 PM

You will need an E85 compatible fuel solenoid if you are running a wet kit. You will also need updated jetting as well.

Just a question. If your running a wet kit with a stand alone fuel system can you run reg gas in the nitrous system and E85 in the tank?????

flyin2jz

02-02-2012, 01:13 PM

Dougie. Is the car going yet? Drive it down and see me tonight I'll be changing brakes on the benz

91lxnos

02-02-2012, 01:21 PM

Dougie. Is the car going yet? Drive it down and see me tonight I'll be changing brakes on the benz

No all tore apart right now no nose, fender, top end is off, ect.... rewireing everything into the fender wells, having the 349 built, going carbed with the giggle juice. Got a cage going into it this weekend.....You know I likes to buy them running then tear them down so I cant drive them for awile!!!!! LOL
But should be spraying her down this year and seeing just what I can get out of a 13:1, 349, 644 lift solid roller on juice!!!!!! Not a 418 but should be alot of fun hanging the tires this year!!!!!!! So what time will the "overtime whore" be home?????LMAO:cool1: