Fire fighter pensions, also works for cops too

[fastone]

Now I know this will start world war 3, but just read and think about it. We are not asking for anything more than we were promised by elected officials. This was wrote by a guy from Newport Fire in KY.


So for all of those who wonder why we get a pension? Lets take a little look at a job of a firefighter versus anyone else.

If your basement floods and you call the plumber will he be there in less than 5 mins, vacum out your water and never charge u a dime? The firefighter will.

When you call 911 because your having chest pain, does the cardiologist, ER nurse, ER doctor, pharmacist, show up at your house in less than 5 mins and take care of you? A firefighter will.

Does Duke Energy show up at your home in less than 5 mins at 3am because you smell gas or your furnace blew up? A firefighter will.

When your kid dies of SIDS, guess who shares that horrible memory with your family for the rest of their lives, despite the fact they never knew you or your family before that day? The firefighter.

When a person sets the house of fire and are trapped because they fell asleep smoking, guess who come puts out the physical effort and mental stress to do all they can to save you from your own screw up. The firefighter.

You on your cell not paying attention to driving, you lose control of your car, it rolls over and your trapped in the middle of I 75, while traffic keeps flying by cause they gotta get to work, guess who braves that traffic and shuts down I 75 so they can cut you out and send you back to your family? The firefighter.

When the teenager gets shot cause they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, who gets the blood on them and washes it off the street? The firefighter

Who goes into homes with rats, roaches, bed bugs, human feces on the floor, dog feces on the bed, cat piss on the furniture? The firefighter does because they were called, doesnt matter the reason they always show up.

There is no other service in the nation that when you call, we show up. Period. No exceptions, we wade through the waste and tragedy of human society. We take home the memories of what we saw and felt, we carry it with us for life.

343 firefighters died, because someone did a horrible thing and the people they did it too, CALLED FOR HELP.

10 years later it means nothing.

We ask for decent pay, decent benefits, and fair compensation for a career of witnessing the worst society has to offer. Now thats simply too much to ask, because the "leaders of the country" screwed it up. Now its time to blame someone. God forbid the politician would look in the mirror for answers.

U want to know why we desrve collective bargaining? When was the last time you got dirty at the insurance office? When was the last person you saw die in your office at P & G? When was the last time you had to clean feces, ash, and mud off your clothes at the shopping store?

Everyone wants to strip away benefits from firefighters becasue you dont have it as good at your job? Go for it, but ask yourself who is going to show up next time you call 911?

[02mingryGT]

U want to know why we desrve collective bargaining?

Has nothing to do with what you deserve. You shouldn't have collective bargaining because it's a conflict of interest for you to be able to vote for the person your bargaining with(the public's representative). If you give up your right to vote you can have collective bargaining. Sound fair?

[fasthawk]

One is paided to do a job no matter what it is and if that is your job and duty calls that what you are supose to do.People choose carrers and that was there choice and they are pissed that the easy road is coming to a end well welcome to the real world.
I am a non union ironworker, welder , working foremen and i got a call on a sunday afternoon to go out to a building that 2 floors had started to fall and the firemen had condemed the building duke shut the power off.They all went home and i was there for 30 hours straight to shore the building so it would not come all the way down. Am i supose to get something extra for that , no its my job and i was called to do it , was i a little worried hell yea because the 2nd and 3rd floor beams were down about 2 feet wedged against the outside walls and could have come down at anytime.
Firefighters make good money if you figured the time per dangous call they have to run and not hanging out cleaning equiment and other stuff.

[Squale iii]

Were you drafted to be a firefighter? If it's so awful, quit lol.

[89notch]

Has nothing to do with what you deserve. You shouldn't have collective bargaining because it's a conflict of interest for you to be able to vote for the person your bargaining with(the public's representative). If you give up your right to vote you can have collective bargaining. Sound fair?

That only works if you live in the community you work for and the majority of people don't.

[fastone]

I don't have any contract at all with where I work. I'm scared to death of the day they cut my pay. We have it wrote down and signed both those in charge of a three percent raise last July. Did we get it, no. Did we fight for it, no, the budget was tight and other items, like money for training was more important so that is where it went to.

[firestang70]

sigh......

[fastone]

One is paided to do a job no matter what it is and if that is your job and duty calls that what you are supose to do.People choose carrers and that was there choice and they are pissed that the easy road is coming to a end well welcome to the real world.
I am a non union ironworker, welder , working foremen and i got a call on a sunday afternoon to go out to a building that 2 floors had started to fall and the firemen had condemed the building duke shut the power off.They all went home and i was there for 30 hours straight to shore the building so it would not come all the way down. Am i supose to get something extra for that , no its my job and i was called to do it , was i a little worried hell yea because the 2nd and 3rd floor beams were down about 2 feet wedged against the outside walls and could have come down at anytime.
Firefighters make good money if you figured the time per dangous call they have to run and not hanging out cleaning equiment and other stuff.

Never meet you, and this is probably go to piss you off. If you went to work on a Sunday and doing what you were doing and not getting paid more, your fault. If I was in your shoes, Sunday call out, extra pay, emergency fix of someone's problem, extra money. A job you bid, what you did was an emergancy fix. A plumber charges more for a call out after business hours, why don't you? Unless it was your orginal contract to put the building up, (this I don't know, you didn't say).

And I have one question for you, have you ever worked a prevailing wage job while welding? Prevailing wage is something unions had a say in getting, but I know alot of non-union shops got work on prevailing wage jobs.

Lastly, I'm not attacking you in anyway, just stating what I would do if I was in your shoes. Even not being in a union, that is how I would run my company. After business hours call out is more money. Hell ask Keith Decker, if someone he doesn't know from here calls on a Friday night and Keith has to go to work. I bet Keith could charge more if he wanted.

[redfirepearlgt]

Entitlement justification 101. :popcorn:

Enough already.

How about those Reds? LOL!

[fastone]

For the Ohio guys, every Ohio person on here. If the senate bill 5 passes, be ready. Rumors are starting, but Cincinnati will probably be the first. Fire all police officers and hire the sheriff's department. Not a big deal you say. I could start a company, hire guys that are cert'ed police officers in ohio and get the Cincinnati contract. How would you feel if your police department was replaced with mall cops??

[89notch]

I'm tired of arguing with people about the job we do. Most of the people arguing that we make all this money only have a high school education and have done nothing with their life. I'm sorry that I went to school for 2 years to get my education and you didn't. I'm sorry that I make 50k a year and you think that's a lot. If you think our job is overpaid and under-worked then you're more than welcome to apply. I'm also sorry that I get a pension that I pay for and you get SS that I'm not eligible for.

They will change their tune when their clutching their chest, have a fire, or even worse hand their kids over to us when their not breathing. In the end were just overpaid and under worked.

[djom1cincy]

Some don't get it. When you start pulling union benefits it won't be long before your boss starts pulling your benefits. If not for union the same non union jobs would pay a lot less. Start cutting the union pay and the non union jobs are going to start cutting pay and the rich guys on top will be getting richer.

[denial]

There are several people on here who are police and fire. I'm a police officer and I work in Montgomery County. Montgomery, Butler, and Hamilton Counties will be affected dramatically imo. They have already cut about as much as they can.

Can we put money and benefits to the side and think about the real consequences here. The safety of the public will be in grave danger if this bill is completely passed. The future for us is not good in the State of Ohio.

Im honestly considering moving down to Florida or some other state for a job.

[02mingryGT]

That only works if you live in the community you work for and the majority of people don't.

It works everywhere. Your union is a local is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.


And I have one question for you, have you ever worked a prevailing wage job while welding? Prevailing wage is something unions had a say in getting, but I know alot of non-union shops got work on prevailing wage jobs.

Lastly, I'm not attacking you in anyway, just stating what I would do if I was in your shoes. Even not being in a union, that is how I would run my company. After business hours call out is more money. Hell ask Keith Decker, if someone he doesn't know from here calls on a Friday night and Keith has to go to work. I bet Keith could charge more if he wanted.

It's called Supply and Demand. If you want something fixed after hours then your going to pay. Nobody is disputing the fact unions did a lot for the working man in this country. But were not talking private unions are we?? We are talking public and the right to collective bargain. stop mixing the two together because they are not the same. There is no law in this state or for that matter any state that limits private corporation unions. This is only about the collective bargaining rights of public workers. You are wanting rights that even federal public unions do not have.

Put in simple terms, the state is broke and the money is coming from somewhere. i personally feel they should stop giving out handouts but in light iof the fact that isbn't happening it has to come from somewhere. Indiana has no collective bargaining rights. Did they fall apart?? No they didn't. In fact they are one of the few states running a budget surplus.




For the Ohio guys, every Ohio person on here. If the senate bill 5 passes, be ready. Rumors are starting, but Cincinnati will probably be the first. Fire all police officers and hire the sheriff's department. Not a big deal you say. I could start a company, hire guys that are cert'ed police officers in ohio and get the Cincinnati contract. How would you feel if your police department was replaced with mall cops??

Rumors are just that, rumors.


I'm tired of arguing with people about the job we do. Most of the people arguing that we make all this money only have a high school education and have done nothing with their life. I'm sorry that I went to school for 2 years to get my education and you didn't. I'm sorry that I make 50k a year and you think that's a lot. If you think our job is overpaid and under-worked then you're more than welcome to apply. I'm also sorry that I get a pension that I pay for and you get SS that I'm not eligible for.

They will change their tune when their clutching their chest, have a fire, or even worse hand their kids over to us when their not breathing. In the end were just overpaid and under worked.

I'm not argueing with you I'm stating facts. And that's a shitty way to defend your point. Nobodies denying the fact that fire and police put their lives on the line. It isn't about that but about the budget. If the shit hits the fan are you going to protect me and my family or your's?? I bet your's.


Some don't get it. When you start pulling union benefits it won't be long before your boss starts pulling your benefits. If not for union the same non union jobs would pay a lot less. Start cutting the union pay and the non union jobs are going to start cutting pay and the rich guys on top will be getting richer.

No ones pulling private union benefits DJ. Only making the public unions pay more and removing their rights to collectively bargain. Big difference.

[SMOKE]

Everyone wants to strip away benefits from firefighters becasue you dont have it as good at your job? Go for it, but ask yourself who is going to show up next time you call 911?

I have stayed out of this argument because I don't personally have an opinion on SB5. But for the whole "Who is going to show up next time I call 911" line it's not really fair because at the end of the day YOU signed up to be a firefighter. Nobody (I'm assuming) showed up at your front door and made you quit your job at P&G, or at your local insurance agency. Almost one complete side of my family is government workers and this affects them as well as you but this whole attitude where you guys act like we should kiss your tail because you are doing "your job" is still something I can't quite comprehend.......

But then again, I have a job where I sit in a 8x8 cubicle for 5-6 days a week so what do I know about working hard? At the end of the day I come home with clean clothes on so I guess you are owed more than I am eh?

[mustang8998]

Most of the people arguing that we make all this money only have a high school education and have done nothing with their life.

How to win friends and influence people!


:eek:

[Squale iii]

I have a bachelor's degree....Do I feel like I'm entitled to anything? No. I pay my taxes, I earn a fair wage for what I do, and I limit my spending to make ends meet.

[fastone]

It's called Supply and Demand. If you want something fixed after hours then your going to pay. Nobody is disputing the fact unions did a lot for the working man in this country. But were not talking private unions are we?? We are talking public and the right to collective bargain. stop mixing the two together because they are not the same. There is no law in this state or for that matter any state that limits private corporation unions. This is only about the collective bargaining rights of public workers. You are wanting rights that even federal public unions do not have.

What are these unions asking for that federal public unions do not have?????? Nothing, they are wanting to keep the right to make sure they have a voice in what benefits and pay they get. Nothing more nothing less. If the union and its employers come to an impass then someone from the outside comes in and looks at both sides and stuff other unions have around there and makes a decision that is the best for both sides. And I'll piss you off too, if you are that dumb to think that they will stop at killing just public unions, you are mistaken.

Put in simple terms, the state is broke and the money is coming from somewhere. i personally feel they should stop giving out handouts but in light iof the fact that isbn't happening it has to come from somewhere. Indiana has no collective bargaining rights. Did they fall apart?? No they didn't. In fact they are one of the few states running a budget surplus.


Indiana has collective bargaining for police and fire. Indiana is looking at doing the same as Ohio


Rumors are just that, rumors.

Rumors, have you had your head in the ground? Cincinnita's clowncil was already trying to break the police union and bring in the sheriff's dept. Good idea, but you got to pay the guys what they are making. I live in a place where we only have sheriff's deputies, works great.

I'm not argueing with you I'm stating facts. And that's a shitty way to defend your point. Nobodies denying the fact that fire and police put their lives on the line. It isn't about that but about the budget. If the shit hits the fan are you going to protect me and my family or your's?? I bet your's.

If I'm at home, mine, if I'm at work, it's whoever calls first. If you called first but we went and saved my family first, probably going to be in jail after everything is done.

No ones pulling private union benefits DJ. Only making the public unions pay more and removing their rights to collectively bargain. Big difference.[/QUOTE]

[fastone]

It works everywhere. Your union is a local is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.



It's called Supply and Demand. If you want something fixed after hours then your going to pay. Nobody is disputing the fact unions did a lot for the working man in this country. But were not talking private unions are we?? We are talking public and the right to collective bargain. stop mixing the two together because they are not the same. There is no law in this state or for that matter any state that limits private corporation unions. This is only about the collective bargaining rights of public workers. You are wanting rights that even federal public unions do not have.

Put in simple terms, the state is broke and the money is coming from somewhere. i personally feel they should stop giving out handouts but in light iof the fact that isbn't happening it has to come from somewhere. Indiana has no collective bargaining rights. Did they fall apart?? No they didn't. In fact they are one of the few states running a budget surplus.





Rumors are just that, rumors.



I'm not argueing with you I'm stating facts. And that's a shitty way to defend your point. Nobodies denying the fact that fire and police put their lives on the line. It isn't about that but about the budget. If the shit hits the fan are you going to protect me and my family or your's?? I bet your's.



No ones pulling private union benefits DJ. Only making the public unions pay more and removing their rights to collectively bargain. Big difference.


I have stayed out of this argument because I don't personally have an opinion on SB5. But for the whole "Who is going to show up next time I call 911" line it's not really fair because at the end of the day YOU signed up to be a firefighter. Nobody (I'm assuming) showed up at your front door and made you quit your job at P&G, or at your local insurance agency. Almost one complete side of my family is government workers and this affects them as well as you but this whole attitude where you guys act like we should kiss your tail because you are doing "your job" is still something I can't quite comprehend.......

But then again, I have a job where I sit in a 8x8 cubicle for 5-6 days a week so what do I know about working hard? At the end of the day I come home with clean clothes on so I guess you are owed more than I am eh?

Not asking you to kiss our ass. Just stating that this problem was not started by police, fire or any public union. Our retirement funding would be fine, if our elected officials made the payments over the last 10+ years they are required to by law. I know in the state of KY they have borrowed well over 1 billion from the teachers retirement fund, do you think they will see that money??? Ever think that money will be returned??? We are normal working people wanting to keep the same benefits everyone else has. Yeah we have some extra benefits, but most of the people I have talked to, don't mind knowing their a little bit of your tax money funds my retirement. Its not that much money, in KY between myself and my employer, we put in well over 20 grand a year for my retirement. I know that comes from taxes but its a benefit, some we have better, others you have better. At the end of the day I guess we see on here where everyone's support lays. People will disagree with each other. That's life.

[fastone]

I have a bachelor's degree....Do I feel like I'm entitled to anything? No. I pay my taxes, I earn a fair wage for what I do, and I limit my spending to make ends meet.

I pay the same taxes. I earn a fair wage too. My family has limited our spending too. My place of employment was going to buy a new 800 grand ladder truck. Did we need it? No, were they cutting things out of the budget to get it?? Yes, they were cutting physicals, training, vision and dental insurance. Did the new truck do anything our truck we have now do? No. So we are making cuts at my house and also at my work. I believe we are entitled to a retirement like what we have in KY, I'm from KY so I can't speak of Ohio. But in KY it is a state law, KRS, that states what our retirement is. So yes, since it is law, I think I am due that. I have friends that tell me, if I knew I had that retirement plan, I would have tried to become a fireman. Not my fault you stood in the wrong line.

[89notch]

I have a bachelor's degree....Do I feel like I'm entitled to anything? No. I pay my taxes, I earn a fair wage for what I do, and I limit my spending to make ends meet.

Thats all were asking for. This bill is more about safety concerns then it is money. This bill allows for the same bargaining powers for money as the old. The rights removed involves mine and the publics safety issues. This bill removes the right for me to bargain for safety issues.

For Example:
Staffing Levels
Apparatus staffing levels
safety equipment like bullet proof vests for the cops and turnout gear for us

[2kSVT]

Guys, this has already passed the house 17-16 votes, it is likely to pass the Republican dominated Senate. I have been a cop for 15 years. I have worked the last 9 in the west side of Dayton. I have spent 5.5 of those years on the SWAT team. I signed up to do this job. I have seen and see the harsh reality of the underbelly of society on a daily basis. It is a thankless job, but I wanted to do it. In return for doing this job, we all just want to make a decent living like everyone else. We pay into our pension every pay day. Our employer matches that 10% contribution. Because we have a private pension, the only SS retirement money we get is if we paid in at a job before police and fire. For me I will make like $1,000 a month from SS. This bill was aimed at teachers, but police and fire got drug in. In Wisconsin, they carved out the police and fire. It does not appear that will happen here. Kasich's people assured the executive board of the Dayton FOP that he was not going after collective bargaining..most of us are stout republicans like most blue collar people. So most of our membership voted for him. Now I can assure you there is not a single DPD/DFD employee that would vote for him again. In our current state of negotiations, we propose a contract. The city can ask for changes and if the 2 sides agree, the contract is voted on and ratified. If not, we can go to a NEUTRAL 3rd party who weighs the impact of both side and decides what we get. This is not always favorable to us. I have not gotten any kind of raise-0 for 3 years. Our insurance premiums went up, though they are still less than other departments. So most times the concileator/arbitrator "splits the baby". Under Kasich new bill, when we disagree, the city has gets to make the decision...who do you think they will side with???? They can decide that the city is in "Fiscal Emergency"..oh and nothing decides exactly what that means. They can then lay off,cut insurance,cut pay etc. If you are an Engineer and you make say 30 an hour, and tomorrow your boss says, "We are in a fiscal emergency..so we can pay you 18 an hour, and you now are on the hook for 20% of your insurance claims..but you still have a job! I don't know about you, but my lifestyle would be over. And then there is HB 69 coming that will attack our pension. Our only hope is to get a vote on the ballot in Nov. 2011. Please research this and vote for Police/Fire/and teachers. Would you want a Dr. that got D's in med school or A'?? If this passes you will get what you pay for in Police/Fire service and teacher. And thanks to the Dept of Justice not approving the last DPD entrance test..there will be almost 200 less cops in Dayton by the end of this year.

[89notch]

It works everywhere. Your union is a local is it not? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thats correct but my local cant vote for anyone.



Put in simple terms, the state is broke and the money is coming from somewhere. i personally feel they should stop giving out handouts but in light iof the fact that isbn't happening it has to come from somewhere. Indiana has no collective bargaining rights. Did they fall apart?? No they didn't. In fact they are one of the few states running a budget surplus.
[/B]

How is it fair the state budget shortfall is causing changes at the local level? The state doesn't cut a check to the city I work for to fund it for the year. I understand there are locals not giving enough to help manage budgets. Ultimately this is why SB5 is happening and its not the correct answer. If the city needs more help against the union then they need to make changes in SERB laws not try to "payback" the unions that didn't back these politicians.









I'm not argueing with you I'm stating facts. And that's a shitty way to defend your point. Nobodies denying the fact that fire and police put their lives on the line. It isn't about that but about the budget. If the shit hits the fan are you going to protect me and my family or your's?? I bet your's.

Explain to me how my wages that come from the city I work for impact the state budget? My wages are funded by local tax and levies.





No ones pulling private union benefits DJ. Only making the public unions pay more and removing their rights to collectively bargain. Big difference.
Also not true. The right to collectively bargain is still there and in tact. They only removed some provisions in the law to not allow barganing on certain issues.
Example
Health insurance
Safety issues
Min staffing guideline
Pension pickup
Those are the big ones

I'M NOT ARGUING THE LAW NEED SOME CHANGES BUT THIS ISNT THE ANSWER!!!!!

[89notch]

How to win friends and influence people!


:eek:

I know it sounds terrible but its the truth. Most people are jealous because they think we're overpaid. They don't make 50,000 a year and think we shouldn't either.

[04 Venom]

So if the Democrats take your rights away, it is a bad thing, but if the Republicans do it, it is a good thing? I guess the Republicans really didn't learn much over the past two years after all.

[supercab78]

2kSVT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for taking the time to make the long post. It explains things pretty well. I hope people take the time to READ it all. I'm not sure but I think as private pension members we can only draw about 25% of SS. Providing one has enough credits.
I don't think the republican's are aware of how many blue color workers voted for them. I know I DID, hoping they would take away some of the wasted benefits you and I would see making runs on the " underbelly of society". You know calling them that is being polite.

[02mingryGT]

So if the Democrats take your rights away, it is a bad thing, but if the Republicans do it, it is a good thing? I guess the Republicans really didn't learn much over the past two years after all.

Absurd to compare Obamacare to public union collective bargaining. As I posted in an earlier thread, FDR, the patron saint of unions, was against public union collective bargaining as well. I also posted another link to a page explaining the reasons why public union collective bargaining is a conflict of interest. But everyone seems to be making emotional arguments rather than those based on facts.
As far as your statement that Republicans are taking away rights of Americans by limiting their collective bargaining, please please show me anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where that is stated.
I think for the most part this is about the fiscal health of each individual state but that seems to be lost in the emotional debate.
I also find it amusing that 89Notch continually refers to any one who disagrees with him as poor and undereducated. He shows the same entitlement philosophy of the supporters of the left. Otherwise known as the "me me me mine mine mine" line. I've got news for you pal, you aren't entitled to shit in this country. You don't like the deal your getting move on. I'm sure someone will gladly take your job. The American people have spoken and the taxpayer supported largess of public unions are over. Oh and your obviously not that smart yourself so I'd stop chucking rocks when you live in a glass house.

[rtvickers]

It’s a shame that the Unions have to take the fall for the Cities. If the Cities wouldn’t have been spending excess money or unnecessary funds they wouldn’t be in this situation. I work for local government in KY. I’ve seen it for the past 6 years. The economy went in the tank but government did change their ways. It’s not the Unions fault that the cities are broke. It’s the city officials and upper managements fault. I see it everyday. A city official wants something done to help out a friend and they don’t care how it gets done or how much it cost. Those things aren’t budgeted for. We bought a $100,000 piece of equipment that wasn’t budget for. How would everyone feel if their boss came in one day and started taking away their benefits and pay because he overspent his money on unnecessary things? Private or government, it doesn’t matter. A union is a union. They should all stick together. How can anyone sit there and want to take away from someone’s family. That’s what this bill will do.

[04 Venom]

Absurd to compare Obamacare to public union collective bargaining. As I posted in an earlier thread, FDR, the patron saint of unions, was against public union collective bargaining as well. I also posted another link to a page explaining the reasons why public union collective bargaining is a conflict of interest. But everyone seems to be making emotional arguments rather than those based on facts.
As far as your statement that Republicans are taking away rights of Americans by limiting their collective bargaining, please please show me anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where that is stated.
I think for the most part this is about the fiscal health of each individual state but that seems to be lost in the emotional debate.
I also find it amusing that 89Notch continually refers to any one who disagrees with him as poor and undereducated. He shows the same entitlement philosophy of the supporters of the left. Otherwise known as the "me me me mine mine mine" line. I've got news for you pal, you aren't entitled to shit in this country. You don't like the deal your getting move on. I'm sure someone will gladly take your job. The American people have spoken and the taxpayer supported largess of public unions are over. Oh and your obviously not that smart yourself so I'd stop chucking rocks when you live in a glass house.

This has nothing to do with fiscal health (the state and local governments have the right to lay off employees if the unions don't agree to concessions--most did including the state employees in Wisconsin). It has everything to do with a concerted effort by Republicans in some states, including Ohio, to break a major source of campaign funds for the opposing political party.

The Republicans complained about some of the procedural tactics the Democrats pulled to pass health care last year. Fast forward to Ohio in 2011. Niehaus removes a fellow Republican from the subcommittee with jurisdiction over SB 5 because that senator opposed the bill. If Niehaus had not done that, the committee would have voted 6-6 for the bill and it never would have made it to the Senate floor, where it narrowly passed. So what's the difference?

Mingry, there are a lot of rights we enjoy as citizens that do not exist in the Constitution and you know better. I point this out because of the hypocrisy that looms over this entire issue. The comparison to Obamacare stands, it's just a smaller version of a blatant exercise of political power, whether you like to admit it or not.

Let's also look at FDR's entire record supporting organized labor rather than a quote from a single statement. By the way, wasn't he the guy who signed the law passed by Congress to inter Japanese Americans during WWII? Does that make him a war criminal too?

[89notch]

I also find it amusing that 89Notch continually refers to any one who disagrees with him as poor and undereducated. He shows the same entitlement philosophy of the supporters of the left. Otherwise known as the "me me me mine mine mine" line. I've got news for you pal, you aren't entitled to shit in this country. You don't like the deal your getting move on. I'm sure someone will gladly take your job. The American people have spoken and the taxpayer supported largess of public unions are over. Oh and your obviously not that smart yourself so I'd stop chucking rocks when you live in a glass house.


Continually really? I've never claimed to be that smart. I did however pick a field to specialize in and went to school for it. I have never shown the entitlement philosophy. I do how ever show the I've earned it philosophy and I'm not going to sit around and let someone take it way.

I really wish people would educate themselves about SB5 before speaking out about it. The american people have spoke? Then why did they have to use dirty politics to get the bill onto the senate floor? Those elected officials did their job and decided this bill shouldn't make it to the senate floor. Then steps in the republicans to use dirty politics to get what they want. Within 48 hours of the senate vote they have republican senators admitting this is a terrible bill but felt obligated to vote yes.

Our entire system is fucked and something needs to be done to fix it.

[89notch]

Absurd to compare Obamacare to public union collective bargaining. As I posted in an earlier thread, FDR, the patron saint of unions, was against public union collective bargaining as well. I also posted another link to a page explaining the reasons why public union collective bargaining is a conflict of interest. But everyone seems to be making emotional arguments rather than those based on facts.
As far as your statement that Republicans are taking away rights of Americans by limiting their collective bargaining, please please show me anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where that is stated.
I think for the most part this is about the fiscal health of each individual state but that seems to be lost in the emotional debate.
I also find it amusing that 89Notch continually refers to any one who disagrees with him as poor and undereducated. He shows the same entitlement philosophy of the supporters of the left. Otherwise known as the "me me me mine mine mine" line. I've got news for you pal, you aren't entitled to shit in this country. You don't like the deal your getting move on. I'm sure someone will gladly take your job. The American people have spoken and the taxpayer supported largess of public unions are over. Oh and your obviously not that smart yourself so I'd stop chucking rocks when you live in a glass house.

Also you never addressed any of my questions in my last post

[2kSVT]

Supercab, thanks. I know I voted for Kasich thinking he was the lesser of two evils. Well he lied to us to get elected and as soon as we turned around...Et tu. The under belly was mild, if people who think we r over paid crybabies had to watch a kid shot take his last breath or see kids living in filth. They may change their minds. 02 Mingray..when was the last time u gave mouth to mouth to a 3 month old that got thrown into a wall by her daddy cause she wouldn't stop crying.?? This will drastically effect my family, so we r gonna fight it.

[Timido]

It’s a shame that the Unions have to take the fall for the Cities. If the Cities wouldn’t have been spending excess money or unnecessary funds they wouldn’t be in this situation. I work for local government in KY. I’ve seen it for the past 6 years. The economy went in the tank but government did change their ways. It’s not the Unions fault that the cities are broke. It’s the city officials and upper managements fault. I see it everyday. A city official wants something done to help out a friend and they don’t care how it gets done or how much it cost. Those things aren’t budgeted for. We bought a $100,000 piece of equipment that wasn’t budget for. How would everyone feel if their boss came in one day and started taking away their benefits and pay because he overspent his money on unnecessary things? Private or government, it doesn’t matter. A union is a union. They should all stick together. How can anyone sit there and want to take away from someone’s family. That’s what this bill will do.

Thats about how I see it also. Poor planning and spending by the federal state and local gov has them in a bad spot. They are looking to backdoor deals that will help the republican party out. If there are no more unions in Ohio there is no more union funding to the Democratic party.

[rtvickers]

It’s a shame that the Unions have to take the fall for the Cities. If the Cities wouldn’t have been spending excess money or unnecessary funds they wouldn’t be in this situation. I work for local government in KY. I’ve seen it for the past 6 years. The economy went in the tank but government didnt change their ways. It’s not the Unions fault that the cities are broke. It’s the city officials and upper managements fault. I see it everyday. A city official wants something done to help out a friend and they don’t care how it gets done or how much it cost. Those things aren’t budgeted for. We bought a $100,000 piece of equipment that wasn’t budget for. How would everyone feel if their boss came in one day and started taking away their benefits and pay because he overspent his money on unnecessary things? Private or government, it doesn’t matter. A union is a union. They should all stick together. How can anyone sit there and want to take away from someone’s family. That’s what this bill will do.

I had to edit my post and I didnt know how.

[04 Venom]

Thats about how I see it also. Poor planning and spending by the federal state and local gov has them in a bad spot. They are looking to backdoor deals that will help the republican party out. If there are no more unions in Ohio there is no more union funding to the Democratic party.

Finally, the lights blink on. It is not about fiscal responsibility, it is about crippling the Democrats. When the Supreme Court issued that horrible decision in Citizens United V. FEC deciding that any limits on campaign contributions by corporations and labor unions was an unconstitutional restriction on free speech (with the so-called conservative wing of the Court legislating from the bench and overturning decades of precedent in the process), it opened Pandora's Box. So is it surprising that the Republicans want to weaken unions, when they are a primary contributor to the Democrats?

IMHO, the differences between Republicans and Democrats are like Tweedledee Dee and Tweedledum when it comes to addressing the biggest problem facing this country--the deficit. And, the deficit didn't become a problem 2 years ago, it started in 1980--it just took a stock market crash and near depression to finally put it on the radar screen. If you want to know what needs to be done, just read the Deficit Commission report. It's all there and its very simple. Now, as long as I am in a ranting mood, go down the hall to the bathroom, look in the mirror and you see another big part of the problem. Yeah, it's us. We would sell our souls for $2.00 gallon gas, the illusion of a tax break (paid for by borrowing from the Chinese) and a Play Station or X-Box. We are becoming a nation of fat, lazy and stupid sheep.

[JET50213]

Republican versus Democrat

Until we all figure out what the politicians are doing to us, the working stiffs will continue to pay the price. This country was designed so that the PEOPLE rule. Well, the system is broken. We can no longer get close enough to our representatives, nor agree on anything collectively, to continue to prosper.

Republicans and Democrats each have their whores who demand support. That is who they are working for. They no longer represent the will of the people. I am conservative by nature, but have been extremely conflicted over the past several years. As long as we have to rely on political parties to watch out for our best interest, we are doomed!

What I see here in Ohio is disgusting! The politicians are instigating war between private industry and public service. That is how politicians work. Class warfare! I think I'll sign up for a missions trip, move to a third world country, and get back to the basics of trying to help my fellow man.

God Bless!