SC vs Turbo

[Pitbull1052]

Question for anyone who's run both before.... I'm building a 347 set up for boost, I have or will have a Novi 1000 what's the pro's and con's turbo vs this sc.... I'm not planning on racing this car just a really fun street car semi daily driver...... any advise would be greatly appreciated

[djom1cincy]

Good read.
svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-talk-229/748212-terminator-twin-screw-vs-turbo.html

[bobtsgt]

SC bud. Everybody is on the turbo thing but a simple sc will put you right were you want to be for a nice street ride. I've often thought about switching myself except thats not an option right now.

[Walter]

If you have a novi 1k already just run that.

[Pitbull1052]

I feel ya Walter I was just curious, like Bob said everybody is on the turbo thing and I guess I thought there might be a reason vs the SC.......

[Walter]

Upgrade to the 2k and call it a day. Kinda wish I would have pullied up on my 2k to see what it would have done.

[HawksWR37]

the thing about a turbo is that it will run like stock on the street until you kick it. there are fuel mileage advantages. I did a lot of research on both when i was deciding a power adder to go with but for a street car either will work fine. but for every 10 supercharged mustangs there is 1 turbo stang

[Pitbull1052]

Upgrade to the 2k and call it a day. Kinda wish I would have pullied up on my 2k to see what it would have done.




That would be ideal the 2k that is we'll see I think i've got my hands full with what I've got hopefully I won't get bored and start changing things around

[NXcoupe]

Turbos are cool because they don't have the belt dragging down the engine. Superchargers are cool because they don't have all that exhaust plumbing running everywhere. It comes down to preference. What you want for your car. jmho.

[Marker1989]

I would be satisfied with a blower, but if I had the choice I'd go turbo all day everyday. In my opinion there's nothing that compares to the fun factor and sweet sweet sounds of turbos. Turbocharging a car that never had that option from the factory isn't always easy so you'd have to be up to the task. You do have the blower already though..

[HawksWR37]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Footballqb3426/29402440026_large.jpg

This should help your decision making process ;)

[Pitbull1052]

Well hawk I think that does help lol I'll stick with the super charger as those turbo's look like they'll get me into trouble lol

I've had a 1991 Supra Turbo that put down about 580 but never had a SC car hell I don't know if I've ever even ridden in a super charged car other than like a buick or pontiac

[Blackout]

well, i have had both on the same car and let me tell you....Its like night & day. example: had novi 2000 running 10lbs of boost dynoed at 390 rwhp 385 rwtq and those numbers were at 5k+ rpm's. with my turbo running 10-12 lbs of boost put down 450 rwhp @ 4500 rpm's & 550 rwtq @ 3800 rpm's.

in my opinion, if your just want something to cruise the supercharger is the way to go. They are fun and most of them are quiet. also most of them fit alot better than the turbo setups. but if you really want to put some power to the wheels... turbo is the only way to go. You are just able to make so much more power but for me it was a pipe routing issues (wich now is fixed). custom turbo kits are best but there are also alot of manufacturers out there also who makes kits. Good luck with what ever you decide it will be fun for you no matter what you decide.

[Pitbull1052]

well, i have had both on the same car and let me tell you....Its like night & day. example: had novi 2000 running 10lbs of boost dynoed at 390 rwhp 385 rwtq and those numbers were at 5k+ rpm's. with my turbo running 10-12 lbs of boost put down 450 rwhp @ 4500 rpm's & 550 rwtq @ 3800 rpm's.

in my opinion, if your just want something to cruise the supercharger is the way to go. They are fun and most of them are quiet. also most of them fit alot better than the turbo setups. but if you really want to put some power to the wheels... turbo is the only way to go. You are just able to make so much more power but for me it was a pipe routing issues (wich now is fixed). custom turbo kits are best but there are also alot of manufacturers out there also who makes kits. Good luck with what ever you decide it will be fun for you no matter what you decide.




wow 60 hp difference with almost the same boost that's pretty impressive. Yea I think I like the SC set up just because of the plumping issues, I don't have much room as it is........ Thanks for the info that helps that was on your edge right? Any other mods to put those numbers down?

[Blackout]

wow 60 hp difference with almost the same boost that's pretty impressive. Yea I think I like the SC set up just because of the plumping issues, I don't have much room as it is........ Thanks for the info that helps that was on your edge right? Any other mods to put those numbers down?

what do you mean "on your edge"? Those where max if that's what you were asking. With you running a 347, you actually have alot more room than you think. with my stupid 2v, they are rediculously wide and their is absolutely no room. I had to install a tubular K-member to make just enough room.

All I did is I got a little larger fuel pump. The rest of the car is the pretty much the same as it was with the supercharger.

This is my dyno w/turbo:

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/mustang46/2002%20Mustang%20GT%20Turbo%20Pics%20and%20Turbo%2 0Build/th_2002MustangTurbo.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/mustang46/2002%20Mustang%20GT%20Turbo%20Pics%20and%20Turbo%2 0Build/?action=view&current=2002MustangTurbo.jpg)

you can feel free to look at the other photo's if it help you. If it don't work it under photobucket and my name is Mustang46.

[cobra429boss]

Nitrous

[Stangman]

Id pick the sound of a kennebell over the sound of a turbo lol. I've always just loved the sound of a blower.

[Blackout]

I never worried about how it sounds because the person your racing can't hear your turbo if your in front......:)

[Pitbull1052]

what do you mean "on your edge"? Those where max if that's what you were asking. With you running a 347, you actually have alot more room than you think. with my stupid 2v, they are rediculously wide and their is absolutely no room. I had to install a tubular K-member to make just enough room.

All I did is I got a little larger fuel pump. The rest of the car is the pretty much the same as it was with the supercharger.

This is my dyno w/turbo:

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/mustang46/2002%20Mustang%20GT%20Turbo%20Pics%20and%20Turbo%2 0Build/th_2002MustangTurbo.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/mustang46/2002%20Mustang%20GT%20Turbo%20Pics%20and%20Turbo%2 0Build/?action=view&current=2002MustangTurbo.jpg)

you can feel free to look at the other photo's if it help you. If it don't work it under photobucket and my name is Mustang46.



thought they called your style of cars "new edge" good numbers though

[Pitbull1052]

I've thought about Nitro also but I don't know i've never had the pleasure of hitting the button....... and Jess I'd love to have a KB I love they way they look and how they don't take up any extra room. Just not in love with the price

[Blackout]

thought they called your style of cars "new edge" good numbers though

ahhh-OK, I gotcha. If you run a turbo setup, your numbers would crazier than mine. The pushrod base engines are alot easier and cheaper to make fast. There are also alot of options out there to make they look good too. I am funny about my car, and want everything right. I bought an on3 kit and moddified it to make it like the pony down kits. On3 performance is a cheap easy way to get an entry level kit. They are cheap and seem to decent. I would just upgrade to the master power turbo if you decide you might want to go that route.

[Pitbull1052]

ahhh-OK, I gotcha. If you run a turbo setup, your numbers would crazier than mine. The pushrod base engines are alot easier and cheaper to make fast. There are also alot of options out there to make they look good too. I am funny about my car, and want everything right. I bought an on3 kit and moddified it to make it like the pony down kits. On3 performance is a cheap easy way to get an entry level kit. They are cheap and seem to decent. I would just upgrade to the master power turbo if you decide you might want to go that route.




I feel ya on being funny about your car when mine's done you'll see I'm the same way, everything is powdercoated pretty much, intake CAI pullies valve covers oil pan etc, 12 point ARP's for just about every bolt.. now granted I didnt do all the work to mine most of it was done when I got it...... and I don't know about being cheaper there's pretty close to 10k in my set up....

[Blackout]

I feel ya on being funny about your car when mine's done you'll see I'm the same way, everything is powdercoated pretty much, intake CAI pullies valve covers oil pan etc, 12 point ARP's for just about every bolt.. now granted I didnt do all the work to mine most of it was done when I got it...... and I don't know about being cheaper there's pretty close to 10k in my set up....

man..... where in the world did you get those prices? I just looked up there kit witch consisted of all the piping and a master power turbo and your only looking at about $1700-1800. but that does not include injectors and mass air. Now I am not sure if they require a k-member change but I bought mine off ebay and only spent $350 for the complete coil-over conversion. I would say that you could do your entire setup for about $3000 for everything and possibly even a dyno tune included.

[Pitbull1052]

man..... where in the world did you get those prices? I just looked up there kit witch consisted of all the piping and a master power turbo and your only looking at about $1700-1800. but that does not include injectors and mass air. Now I am not sure if they require a k-member change but I bought mine off ebay and only spent $350 for the complete coil-over conversion. I would say that you could do your entire setup for about $3000 for everything and possibly even a dyno tune included.



When I say my set up I mean my engine combo period... Victor Jr's, 1.6's, JE dished pistons, Flowtech custom ground cam, Eagle 4340 347 stroker crank, Holley Systemax, 42lb injectors, 04 cobra mass air, FAST air/fuel, Flowtech long tubes, all the ARP hardware, aeromotive fuel pressure, billet rails, MDS pro billet, AL6, goofy little things like a $40 dollar billet dizzy hold down, billet timing pointer, trick flow 347 girdle was like 300 bucks, then add like 1200 for the SC........ about a grand in machine work it just goes on and on...... that's before you talk about the rest of the drivetrain 04 Viper Spec T-56.... etc... I did the math one day and there's about 30k in the car and that's just in parts or paint

[Pitbull1052]

Oh I forgot I do have a tubular K and coilovers on all 4 corners....

[chad393na]

Speaking from experience I would go with the supercharger, especially if you already have a novi 1000. My car with stock heads/cam/intake,novi 1000, worn-out T5, and weighing 3300# went 11.7 @ 116, so it was making over 350 rwhp. Your combo should be 450+ rwhp which would make for a very fun street car! Besides, the install would be WAY easier and you could switch it back easier if you ever decided to.

[HawksWR37]

IMHO - Easy isn't always the best. I always look to the future, because honestly once you get the SC your gonna want more power. and with that you are limited to a certain pulley, with a turbo you can run close to 30 psi before you peak it out. but its all opinion

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I've always liked turbos because they run off exhaust waste, where as a blower takes power to make power.

[2kSVT]

I turboed a 2.5 V6 Contour SVT with a T3/T4 at 10# and it made 300 fwhp for about 4 grand. I bought my Saleen SC kit for $1600 and supporting mods, I have maybe $2,500 making an estimated 310 whp at 10#. The turbo car was a freaking blast from a roll. The plumbing issues are a pain, and I always seemed to have little issues after the turbo install. I felt like I took the drivability out of it. The Saleen install went smooth, loaded the tune and not issues. The blower whine is very cool, but the sound of a blow off valve on a 347 would be amazing! If you have the Novi and would be happy with it's performance, I say SC.

[Kwik92GT]

Turbos are cool because they don't have the belt dragging down the engine. Superchargers are cool because they don't have all that exhaust plumbing running everywhere. It comes down to preference. What you want for your car. jmho.

THIS. ^^

Really can't go wrong either way IMO.

[chad393na]

IMHO - Easy isn't always the best. I always look to the future, because honestly once you get the SC your gonna want more power. and with that you are limited to a certain pulley, with a turbo you can run close to 30 psi before you peak it out. but its all opinion

Right, but in this instance where he is building a fun, semi-daily driver it makes more sense. Besides, you can upgrade it to a novi 2000 and make well over 500 rwhp. I know that a turbo has alot of advantages, but it didn't sound like the op was looking to the future with this combo.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Brad just leave the Novi on it...it was showing 499hp on the Gtech thing Kenny has...and it was probably about to puke when it showed that and wasn't tuned and had a NA cam etc etc etc. You'll be plenty happy with the Novi. Remember you're still on a stock block...don't split this one too.

[babiixoxbritty]

blackouts turbo 2v walked my bolt on 03 cobra. now the eaton or should i say heaton is going in the trash can in favor of a nice 76mm turbo, I got tired of getting beat up on all of the time.

[chad393na]

Brad just leave the Novi on it...it was showing 499hp on the Gtech thing Kenny has...and it was probably about to puke when it showed that and wasn't tuned and had a NA cam etc etc etc. You'll be plenty happy with the Novi. Remember you're still on a stock block...don't split this one too.

Exactly. Why put a turbo on when you know it will be capable of making more power than the block can handle. Hell, you would have to keep the boost low with the engine combo you have now.

[Blackout]

blackouts turbo 2v walked my bolt on 03 cobra. now the eaton or should i say heaton is going in the trash can in favor of a nice 76mm turbo, I got tired of getting beat up on all of the time.

ahh.... It was a close race. but the turbo definately made me a believer.

[Jrcmutang]

why spend more money than you have to, if you already have the novi, bolt it on have some fun and save up for a custom kit?

[Pitbull1052]

Really guys I just wanted to know your opinions and maybe have a little constructive post about CARS lol instead of all the other bs all the time and really i'm sure I'll stay with the Novi, most likely what will happen is I'll drive it all the rest of this year NA send the Novi out for an upgrade, buy a 4 bolt block and have at it. Again I've never had a super charged car I've had a few turbo's but they were factory turbo cars so that's a little different IMO........


I can say this car in it's previous config NA vs a 550HP Termi and the termi couldnt walk away from it,(The Termi owner is a member of the board also) as far as future mods I doubt other than getting a 4 bolt block and some suspension upgrades that I'll do anything else with it. I know everyone likes to tinker and do upgrades all the time but seems like for the past Oh I dunno 5 years that's all i've done and i'm tired of it, I want a BA ride that's got enough power to make it fun, maybe show up to the track on T&T night make a few runs and drive her home.

[Pitbull1052]

The blower whine is very cool, but the sound of a blow off valve on a 347 would be amazing! If you have the Novi and would be happy with it's performance, I say SC.





I can't wait to hear that bpv should sound pretty sick as the car has a different sound than any other Mustang I've ever heard before. Kinda sounds like an indy car when you're getting into it or hear it passing by. Rev's up really quick with the aluminum flywheel

[Jrcmutang]

sounds like a great car, cant wait to see how it turns out

[Pitbull1052]

:bigthumb


sounds like a great car, cant wait to see how it turns out

Thanky..... hopefully it'll be ready by the spring cruise

[Dirtyd0g]

The real down side to turbo is they become very high maintenance, not so much if you keep your foot out of it. Where is the fun in that however. Under hood and exhaust temps must be monitored closely to avoid fires and generalized melted crap. Then there is never really a bolt on setup making turbo really a job to take on if you are not fraid to fabricate. They are fun to drive however.
Alan

[Blackout]

I know everyone likes to tinker and do upgrades all the time but seems like for the past Oh I dunno 5 years that's all i've done and i'm tired of it, I want a BA ride that's got enough power to make it fun, maybe show up to the track on T&T night make a few runs and drive her home.

I know what your talking about.... I am getting tired of turning wrenches for a while. I am buying an intake, heads & fuel system and calling it. I just have to figure out why my crap isn't shifting right now and after my future upgrades, i am not touching the car again unless it breaks. I just wish I had unlimited funds to just pay someone else to do all the work so I don't have to worry about it.

I think that your Novi will do you fine for a while until your ready for the turbo setup. Good luck man.

[Pitbull1052]

I know what your talking about.... I am getting tired of turning wrenches for a while. I am buying an intake, heads & fuel system and calling it. I just have to figure out why my crap isn't shifting right now and after my future upgrades, i am not touching the car again unless it breaks. I just wish I had unlimited funds to just pay someone else to do all the work so I don't have to worry about it.

I think that your Novi will do you fine for a while until your ready for the turbo setup. Good luck man.




Thanks bro I appreciate it, I guess it wouldnt be to bad if I had a lift, airtools a huge heated garage then I wouldnt mind lol

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

A lot of people say turbos are easier on the engine and drivetrain because they come on at later RPM, and a turbo doesn't send so much harmonics through the crank shaft and the rest of the engine. If you built a turbo setup, you could build "the last one i'll ever need" and use the same setup on a later aftermarket block if you wanted. It's hard to argue against a turbo after seeing Plated's coupe run 10s with a junkyard engine.

[Metcalf Racing]

The real down side to turbo is they become very high maintenance, not so much if you keep your foot out of it. Where is the fun in that however. Under hood and exhaust temps must be monitored closely to avoid fires and generalized melted crap. Then there is never really a bolt on setup making turbo really a job to take on if you are not fraid to fabricate. They are fun to drive however.
AlanThere is no down side to a turbo. And they are less maintenance than a sc

[5.0calypso93lx]

There is no down side to a turbo. And they are less maintenance than a sc

Why do you say they are less maintenance than a SC?

[Pitbull1052]

A lot of people say turbos are easier on the engine and drivetrain because they come on at later RPM, and a turbo doesn't send so much harmonics through the crank shaft and the rest of the engine. If you built a turbo setup, you could build "the last one i'll ever need" and use the same setup on a later aftermarket block if you wanted. It's hard to argue against a turbo after seeing Plated's coupe run 10s with a junkyard engine.




So what you're saying is if I turbo it i'll be able to get this thing into the 12's lol j/k :lol: it'll atleast be a year before I do a turbo or most likely even put the SC on it..... I just want to drive it and enjoy it for a bit before I start breaking things lol

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Man don't get me started...it's a total fluke that that SOB wouldn't go 12s when the damn thing would pull on my 302 combo and it went 12.8. I think the engine was hurt the last time we raced it because it just didn't want to run the way it should have and with the power it made on the dyno there's no reason it shouldn't have gone 12s or even high 11s.

It's the only car i've ever been in that would make you shit your pants because the tires would break loose SO easy, yet it wouldn't run for crap at the track.

[Metcalf Racing]

Why do you say they are less maintenance than a SC?
Why do you think they are more? I've had several of both and a turbo that fits your car good is a lot less of a hassle. Plus the make more power, easier on your engine and they don't need rebuilt as often.

[Dirtyd0g]

There is no down side to a turbo. And they are less maintenance than a sc

In moderation I would agree, it is hard for most people to resist the urge to crank up the boost and start blowing tubes of and getting hotter.
Alan

[chad393na]

A lot of people say turbos are easier on the engine and drivetrain because they come on at later RPM, and a turbo doesn't send so much harmonics through the crank shaft and the rest of the engine. If you built a turbo setup, you could build "the last one i'll ever need" and use the same setup on a later aftermarket block if you wanted. It's hard to argue against a turbo after seeing Plated's coupe run 10s with a junkyard engine.

I plan on seeing some 10's this season with a 170k hyper piston shortblock:D

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Man that's what i'm talkin about...and in the meantime just find another block to have ready in case you kill that one. I think Plated bent a rod in one of his engines...swapped it out and was back on the track the next day. That's what this hobby is all about right there :lol:

[Metcalf Racing]

Mine had the original motor with 5 hard years of Nitrous and went 9s

[03z06vette]

Mine had the original motor with 5 hard years of Nitrous and went 9s

You never had to replaced the head gaskets?

[bangingears]

Turbos suck, go with an A-trim if you want to make some real poop

[Metcalf Racing]

You never had to replaced the head gaskets?about every 40 passes. But I ran the
weakest ones I could find. If somethings going to give that's what I wanted it to be. A fuse if you will.

[Metcalf Racing]

You never had to replaced the head gaskets?but then again I said 9's not mid 13s so I could see why you have questions.

[03z06vette]

but then again I said 9's not mid 13s so I could see why you have questions.

I was just asking a question?

[Blackout]

I was just asking a question?

He just likes to get you screaming.......lol

[03z06vette]

He just likes to get you screaming.......lol

Deep down inside, he knows, im gonna beat him...

[Blackout]

Deep down inside, he knows, im gonna beat him...

You beating him is going to be a REALLY tall order. His car is being setup to be rediculously fast.

I don't know you eigther but Metcalf is my brother in law if you didn't know. If you try to argue with him, you will loose that also, and it doesn't matter if your right or he is. He loves to get people screaming mad.

[03z06vette]

You beating him is going to be a REALLY tall order. His car is being setup to be rediculously fast.

I don't know you eigther but Metcalf is my brother in law if you didn't know. If you try to argue with him, you will loose that also, and it doesn't matter if your right or he is. He loves to get people screaming mad.

Im not mad..:lol:

[Pitbull1052]

Man don't get me started...it's a total fluke that that SOB wouldn't go 12s when the damn thing would pull on my 302 combo and it went 12.8. I think the engine was hurt the last time we raced it because it just didn't want to run the way it should have and with the power it made on the dyno there's no reason it shouldn't have gone 12s or even high 11s.

It's the only car i've ever been in that would make you shit your pants because the tires would break loose SO easy, yet it wouldn't run for crap at the track.




I thought we got it into the 11's last year when you ran it did you change the settings on the stranges? and I think alot of it has to do witht those 17's I'm thinking a nice 15" DR should help it out alot.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I'm pretty sure the fastest it ever went was like 12.7 and the last time it was at the track it wouldn't break out of the 13s, but like i said i think the motor was broke or breaking at the time.

[bobtsgt]

or the lack of driver skills lol

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

LOL na...i went 1.9 sixty foot in that car with street tires...i think that's pretty decent considering almost 400rwhp :lol:

[Rick93coupe]

Why do you say they are less maintenance than a SC?

The factories use turbos more than SC's for a reason. The systems are more reliable overall but a lot of planning has to go into it. I've owned a couple of turbo cars that 160k later still never had a turbo problem. Now throw people into the equation and stuff changes. If you don't know what your doing and start trying to modify things your gonna run into problems. You buy a base kit with a modest turbo and set the wastegate on 10 psi, give it enough fuel and use good gas and it should dead reliable for yrs to come. What fun is that? :D

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I think the factory turbo thing has to do with the harmonics that a supercharger sends through the crank and the rest of the engine.

How many miles has anyone heard of the Terminators running? Anyone know of someone who has one well over 100k on the stock engine?

Plus as far as factory power adders go you have to consider that a lot of those engines are small displacement, and since a blower takes power to make power, they're not as efficient as a turbo. Besides diesel engines and a couple supercars, i can't think of any production domestic cars with turbo engines larger than 4 liters...Ford's 3.5 and GM's 3.8. Are there any bigger?

[Rick93coupe]

I think the factory turbo thing has to do with the harmonics that a supercharger sends through the crank and the rest of the engine.

How many miles has anyone heard of the Terminators running? Anyone know of someone who has one well over 100k on the stock engine?

Plus as far as factory power adders go you have to consider that a lot of those engines are small displacement, and since a blower takes power to make power, they're not as efficient as a turbo. Besides diesel engines and a couple supercars, i can't think of any production domestic cars with turbo engines larger than 4 liters...Ford's 3.5 and GM's 3.8. Are there any bigger?


I'm sure your right about displacement, theres not a whole lot of small displacement SC'd cars but what percentage of the market do you suppose turbo diesels make worldwide? I'd say that in itself says a whole lot. I suspect that you dont see turbocharged V8's because they can make the power they need without them within their emission allotment. .02

[Jrcmutang]

I plan on seeing some 10's this season with a 170k hyper piston shortblock:D


WAIT WAIT.....i seen this block last night and it sure does look purdy for 175k, but the hypers are gone??? lol

[Stangman]

and I think alot of it has to do witht those 17's I'm thinking a nice 15" DR should help it out alot.

Why not just go with slicks if you're going with 15" race wheels.

[Pitbull1052]

Why not just go with slicks if you're going with 15" race wheels.




that's prolly what i'll do...... i'd love to have those black gregs that are for sale on here and i'm not sure how much i'll run it at the track prolly just for fun every now and then.......