Stock-ish vs. Heavily Modified:

[Sharad]

I didn't want to hi-jack gearhead's dyno numbers thread, but an interesting subject came up so I started this thread to discuss it.




My first turbo car I had a 100% rock stock car 5 speed with a 60mm t4 off ebay. The car had stock pump and 19lb injectors. I took it to the track on regular radials and it spun real bad and the second it would start to hook the clutch would slip. It still ran a 13.2@114. I was impressed because I knew if the clutch wasn't slipping it would run around 120. That turbo went bad and I bought it a GT42 t6. 42lb injectors, 255fi pump,a spec stage 3 clutch and ET street radials. It was real fast I kept it on race gas and ran 20lbs of boost. But this was before we knew what we needed to really do to make them run. And this was when I was still boycotting all tuners. It kept popping head gaskets so I sold it. But I always have been curious to the power it was making. With all the upgrades I did put a ported system max on it but it was still an e7 motor. But it was my favorite when it was 100% stock with the 60mm. And it never broke. I wish I would have just gave it a fuel system and clutch




Word. Sometimes I wish I just had a bone stock 87-92 motor with a simple kit slapped on it. I'd have driven this thing a LONG time ago...


Interesting topic! I'd say I've had everything from a stock Mustang to a racecar, and the one I most fondly remember is the 12-second notch I drove to college back in '96. It was a H/C/I car with all power options (PW, PDL, PS, A/C, etc) and a nice stereo. I loved that car. Since then I've had some racier stuff, but those race parts come at a cost. (not just monetary) As they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Anytime you strip convenience type parts off of a car or add racy parts to it, you change its character. My '89 with the F1R on the stock motor only ran 11.36@122 (with a 1.71 60' on radials :rolleyes:) but it acted like a racecar. Meanwhile, stock '11 GTs with blowers are faster than that, and comfortable. (as are Terminator Cobras with mild bolt-ons)

One thing I've learned over the years is that the cars seem to be more enjoyable when they're as close to stock as possible. The more I dig into a car, the more of a headache it becomes. 5.0calypso93lx hit the nail on the head... we all get so caught up in keeping up with the Jones's, we just have to have all of the latest greatest race stuff. So we dig into these big "projects" to build our cars up.

I don't know about you guys, but I HATE waiting. Unless you're rich, you're gonna be waiting a while to build a full-on badass street-strip car. Waiting for parts, waiting for work to be done, or just waiting to save up the money. It plays tricks with your head, man. (at least it does for me)

Please please PLEASE don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to offend anyone here. But you know what I've been thinking a lot about lately? Remember how Vinny was building Twisted Twins for years but he never got to enjoy it? All of that hard work and money spent... and waiting and waiting and waiting, for what? I think he was like 38 yrs old when he passed away? I'm 34. And what happened to him could happen to me or anyone.

So I wonder, if I died today, would all of this have been worth it? (this car I'm building) I don't know guys. I'm really not sure. I mean, if I had a stock Mustang like a 99 Cobra or something, I'd be enjoying it now. But any time I raced someone or went to the track I'd be wishing I had a fast car! (like the one I'm building)

Geez, sometimes I wonder if I'm bi-polar? LOL! :D j/k Is it "the grass is always greener on the other side" mentality? I don't know. Somebody back me up so I won't think I'm psycho!

[BlazinEagle]

I agree and disagree with what you said. Boy do I love to just jump in a stang and drive the hell out of it. I loved my 06 GT I had, but I always felt I was missing something so I traded it in on an F150 and told myself I would get a foxbody again. I ended up getting a 90 GT that bit me in the ass. Was not through in looking at it before I bought it and it was rusted beyond repair. So then I decided to pick up a 4cyl and converrt it over with the parts off the GT I had. Simple enough....yeah right. I would never do this swap again and my biggest problem is myself. I decided that I had it torn down I might as well start modding it as I went along. STUPID idea! I should have gotten it driving then started modding. Now a year later I am close to having the car running, but I am always waiting on money to buy the next part I need to finish it up. I hopefully will feel motivated in the spring to get back at it, but right now I am frustrated with it and almost sold it a few weeks ago.
Thats my story.

[Maximus]

You described my Coupe to a T. Chassis Hell for X amount of Time, Painters Purgatory X amount of time. Combination changes due to the fact that I have time to think of different shit because Im waiting on others to finish what I cant do....Its why it is in the corner in a million pieces unfinished.:(

[NO SHOT]

I agree 100% I had so much fun in the early 90's in some stockish cars it was a great time.I remember trying so hard with a bunch of our buddies trying to get in the 13'sLOL!!What good times.........AND THEN NITROUS WOOOOWEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
P.S great topic here.....

[orangedemon331]

I know me and a couple friends have this argument all the time! There is nothing more fun to daily drive or just beat the piss out of than a lightly modded car...... but then it gets boring(atleast for me it does), or the more stockish parts start to break and you start spending big dollars on the more racy parts and before you know it you have a 8-7 second build going!! Im a victim of the same thing, the problem is everyone wants a 8 sec car that drives like a stock one! Im in way too deep to back out now so im in it till its done no matter what it takes!


Craig im just as a.d.d. as you are, i change my mind once a week(sometimes once a day)! My biggest problem is i can buy parts faster than i can put the money in my wallet and it leaves me with time to think(worst thing i ever figured out to do)!!! lol

[draggin50]

This is great! My most favorite car was a stock LX on spray! Daily driver and weekend racer! Now I dont enjoy my cars like I once did. No cage so the boys could ride along, stereo, and even air! I cant do any of that now. One day Ill learn!

[mustangboy]

I constantly fight the urge to put a power adder on my car. I have to keep reminding myself if it aint broke leave it the hell alone. I make 400hp have air and a nice stereo and my kids can ride along anywhere I go. Do I really need to make 500+hp with the threat of splitting the block and putting the car on stand for god knows how long. I think I'll just keep it the way it is and RUNNING.

[orangedemon331]

I constantly fight the urge to put a power adder on my car. I have to keep reminding myself if it aint broke leave it the hell alone. I make 400hp have air and a nice stereo and my kids can ride along anywhere I go. Do I really need to make 500+hp with the threat of splitting the block and putting the car on stand for god knows how long. I think I'll just keep it the way it is and RUNNING.

Oh i know exactly where your coming from, my whole multi thousand dollar building spree started over a 2nd set of blown head gaskets on a stock block! Four years later im still trying to make something happen!

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Personally if i had the cash to throw around like some of you, i'd just build the project part of it on the side and throw all the parts on at one time instead of ripping the car apart and letting it sit in the garage for years. Drive it while it's stock, maybe do some bolt ons but i never understood why people tear down the whole car to do a turbo kit when they don't even have all the parts to put on yet. I'm the type who hoards parts until i can build the whole damn thing in one weekend. I guess in Craig's case though when you're doing a ton of chassis work that's not possible.

Oh and on the Vinny topic...i think if the painter guy hadn't screwed him over for like 6 years, things would've been different.

[Metcalf Racing]

Im in way too deep to back out now so im in it till its done no matter what it takes!

I'm with you on this. I bought my coupe this spring running and driving high 10sec car for $3200. It was a good deal. I let the car get hot and it cracked the block broke a piston and cracked a head. I took it to have all bad replaced and got talked into my stoker kit. While waiting on my short block I started thinking about painting it my self. I can paint plenty good enough to please me but then I started thinking of going custom so I called plated. I'm real wishy washy so I would have backed out but he said load it up and bring it to me now. Now is key with me. If I wait on anything I change my mind.
Now I'm $7k deep in my chassis and almost $10k deep in my engine. By opening day next year ill have around $20k in the car and won't hardly get to have any fun with it. When your car is a single digit car you have to travel around to even get races. But I'm way to far into it to quit and ill have to finnish it no matter what it takes.
Once you start going faster than 11's the fun goes away. I was telling a friend of mine today as soon as my coupe is done I'm going to have to find a car to buy to race

[Walter]

I guess I would call mine medium-modified LOL.

[Metcalf Racing]

The turbo route isn't to bad. Definitely the best hp-driveability for they $


My coupe went wrong when I decided Big NA hp

[Gearhead559]

I didn't want to hi-jack gearhead's dyno numbers thread, but an interesting subject came up so I started this thread to discuss it.

Gearhead559...someone else beat me to the Gearhead name here. maybe i should have it changed to Gearheadz..lol:lol:


but yes it is a great topic. i remember having stockish cars with hidden spray systems :angel: most of my younger years, cause thats all i could afford. and i swear, i had more fun with those cars then any of the faster cars i have owned. i liked to street race. going to the track just sucked, but trying to race a faster car, and every one knows it. no one wants to play :lol:. but now you just cant get a street race off around here. thanks john linn, fucking prick. but anyway.:lol: i have fun with slower cars. the faster you want to go, the more money it costs you. even a slow pretty car can cost you money. but i can say, there are things that pay off. I have built some cars for some people, yes we went thru hell to get to the point where it got, but once it was there, it was powerful, reliable , and fun. pass every thing but a gas station, but not many cars you come across on the street that could fuck with it..lol. but then that brings me to think, ahhh the good old days...:(

[05yellowgt]

Sorry guys, but this is going to be a bit of a long one. My car was definitely the most fun when it just had bolt on's and a 6 speed tranny. I could drive the car to a high 12's without too much trouble which I was fairly happy with. I would have been really happy with some ported heads and cams and leaving it at that. Instead I continued with this plan in my head to have a car that made over 800hp at the tires, and be daily drivable. I got most of the way there but cut corners by not doing anything to the heads or cams because funds were just running too low and I had to replace the Spec stage 3+ clutch because it was slipping past 5500rpm on the dyno with a $1200 twin disc clutch that too forever to break in properly. I didn't think the car was going to make much over 600rwhp but then got suprised because I didn't anticipate that the 4.30" pulley on the F1A was going to make nearly 27psi of boost. Finally the car was making just north of 700rwhp and I thought I was going to be happy.

I am happy, just not nearly as happy as I was when I could drive the car around on regular radials any time I damn well pleased and didn't have to worry about lighting up a set of 295/55/15 drag radials and anything beyond 1/2 throttle in 1st gear, being mindful of only having about 100-125 miles of usable range between fill ups in town because running 3 GT supercar pumps in the stock tank runs a real risk of sucking the fuel basket dry and starving the pumps if running the car below 1/4 tank of fuel, and just knowing the fact that now if I decide to run through the gears that the car will go from 0 to "go straight to jail, do not pass go and do not collect $200 and oh by the way we are seizing your car" in the blink of an eye. On top of that, the increase power seems to have this un-canny ability to magnify my poor driving. I've gone from driving a 300rwhp 3500lb car to a high 12' on DR's to a 700rwhp 3600lb car that I haven't been able to get into the 10's yet on radials?!?!?!?! I know the car needs slicks and more suspension to see its true potential, but I blew my budget on getting the car to make big power but now can't do what else needs to be done for me to be able to put the power to the ground. At this point I think I'd much rather take off the blower, big fuel system, swap the 9.3 compression pistons for 12:1 pistons and throw a nice set of ported heads, and a nice custom ground n/a cam and be able to drive the car whenever and wherever I felt like again.

Don't get me wrong, the car has great driveabilty and as long as I plot out my route of E85 stations I am confident I could drive it just about anywhere I wanted with AC, power, steering, a full interior minus rear seats, and a full stereo. There's just something to be said for a more mild combo at least when it comes to this particular car and me. I also think about what the car is now capable of in terms of shear speed and that makes me think of my two little girls that are on the way.

[Sloney50]

NOTHING will humble you like little ones..........nothing in this world brings more joy and makes you think...........:bigthumb

[Pitbull1052]

I have a daily driver very lightly modded 91 lx the motor is bone stock, gears, cold air intake, lowered, 5 lug, just little stuff. I drive it everyday and have for the past 5 years even when there's snow on the ground. It has by far been the most enjoyable get in and drive car I've ever owned, but now I'm ready for more I'm bored with it.......... I made the mistake of driving a buddies car that had a 347 in it and now i've got the bug.....

[TurboNG]

I had no problems with my car for 2 years while it was running 11s on spray and a stock block. I had a tun of problems getting the car running and on the road since i did my build up. But since it's done i havn't had any issues with it and i will be turning 9's in it here soon. I still drive the piss out of it, nice days i am always driving it.
I love this topic ....

[NXcoupe]

I was guilty of this as well. I took my cruiser 12 sec vert and turned it into a 600 hp beast. I was able to drive it anywhere, had a/c, power everything, even cruise. But when I would climb into the throttle, by top of second gear I was getting up to insane mph on the street. It just wasn't fun anymore. the rush in first to second was cool, getting on the expressway was neat, but i missed that rowing the gears on a straightaway with a 12 sec car. Before the blower and all the mods I could hammer it and row gears, and barely reach 100 unless I kept it hammered in 4th. so that made a lot of small straight aways fun. I grew tired of having power that couldn't be used and just parted it and got rid of it. I miss having a dd that is fun to drive and row gears, so I am in the process of getting back to that. My r/s car is a blast to drive, but it was a lot more fun when it was a low 12 sec street car hitting tens on nitrous. I could jump into that and drive it just about anywhere, and pound the throttle and row some gears whenever I wanted, and not really get stupid fast with it. Just my take on this subject.

[5.0calypso93lx]

The difference for me is that I've never really had anything fast. My 93' went 13.89 @ 101 when I had it going for one short summer. Hell, the fastest thing I've had was my recent MR2 that went 13.09 @ 105 and yea it was fun to drive, but it really didn't feel that fast and got boring pretty quickly. This thread makes me have really bad thoughts :( I sometimes wonder why I even got into cars in the first place. Where do we draw the line??

[Metcalf Racing]

There is no line. They are all endless projects that you will never be completely happy with.

[05yellowgt]

The line gets drawn when we know what we think we want, spend much time, money, sweat, and blood getting it where we think we want it and realizing we don't know ourselves as well as we thought.

[facemelter71]

My 86 had been swapped over to 87 before I bought it.It was my first Mustang that I had ever got back when I was 17.My Step mom Bought it for me.
It was chrome yellow with a black top,white poney's and a hideously huge roll cage.

This mustang had the 5.0 badges cut out and this type of white plexiglass with put in with lights behind the fenders.Along with the badges,the ground effects had been cut out where it says MUSTANG GT and some blue neons were installed inside the ground effects. And also the front Ford emblem had the same type of white plexiglass and also lit up.

For years I beat the shit out of that car.It was still speed density had stock headers,off road-X pipe,custom AMP performance intake spacer and cobra 1.7 roller rockers,3:55 gears,5 speed.I lived in AZ for a couple years and that is where i had the most fun with that car.Through the life of the car,it had 2 engines,4 transmissions,and 2 rearends.

Till now it was the best time I had with either of my mustangs.Untill I got my coupe up and running with the stoker motor.I drove the coupe stock with an E-cam and gears untill I got everything ready and done for the stroker swap.

The car was down longer than expected because of my herniated disc in my back.

But I enjoyed building it every time I wrenched on it.there is no way I can go years without driving my coupe.Thats why it took me 4 years to get every thing together for it. I enjoy that car more now than ever.

[JIMS SVT]

They are all endless projects that you will never be completely happy with.

:agree:

[cstreu1026]

...the only way to be truly happy is to have many Mustangs built many different ways. Unfortunately thats not in my budget or will they fit in the limited amount of space I have.

[JIMS SVT]

I realized that I will never be happy with any setup no matter how much power or how fast it is.I have a problem I suppose.

[Maximus]

I realized that I will never be happy with any setup no matter how much power or how fast it is.I have a problem I suppose.

Hello, my name is Jim and Im a Speed-o-holic. :lol: :bigthumb

[bkstang95]

I realized that I will never be happy with any setup no matter how much power or how fast it is.I have a problem I suppose.

I'm in the same boat...

Gotta pay to play!

[Sharad]

Wow! I didn't realize what I started here. :)

You know, I felt like an ungrateful douche right after I typed my first post. I actually have a stock '95 GT for a daily driver, so perhaps I shouldn't be longing for the days of driving a stocker, although the '95 comes with it's own frustrations. There are so many things I want to do with it, but I have to save the money for my racecar. It's torture!!

I think several of you guys got it right early on in the thread. The key is probably to minimize downtime, but even that is more complicated than it seems. Here are two examples:

Terry (beefcake) got a lot of criticism for putting a mild steel 6 or 8-point rollbar in his car. He had his reasons though. He said it had to be done THAT WEEK so that he could race at NMRA Bowling Green. Lo and Behold, he won the race!! So in a sense, his decision to minimize downtime by installing a mild steel rollbar was probably the right choice for him. But to me, if I had that car I'd be wanting to up the boost. Then the car would need a FULL 10-point rollCAGE to run quicker than 10.0s and he'd have to pull it right back apart. In that case, the decision to install the mild steel rollbar would actually cost him more downtime later. (incidentally, this is why my car is now a full-chromoly 25.2)

Example number two, 5.0calypso93LX said he wishes he'd gone with a stock motor so he could be enjoying it now. I'm with ya, bro! Then again, like orangedemon331 said, sometimes using the stock stuff guarantees more down time if you're always blowing headgaskets (or just generally breaking stock parts). So the stock motor or not decision is not so simple either.




You described my Coupe to a T. Chassis Hell for X amount of Time, Painters Purgatory X amount of time. Combination changes due to the fact that I have time to think of different shit because Im waiting on others to finish what I cant do....Its why it is in the corner in a million pieces unfinished.:(

This man knows exactly what I'm talking about! It's the psychological part that is worse than anything else. I am at the top of my game when I'm in the garage doing work. It's when I'm in the house stressing out about things I can't control that the project makes me miserable. I've got editors, sponsors, and friends asking me when the car is gonna be done and I have no clue! So I stress out about that, and then like Craig said, when my mind starts wandering thinking about all kinds of different things, I start to question my past decisions on the project. Should I proceed as planned, or swap it to a turbo and a powerglide, or should I just sell the car and buy a Porsche 911 Turbo? Seriously, I've had all of those thoughts! It is psychological torture, and it makes me miserable.

That reminds of of when 85_SS_302_Coupe said:


Oh and on the Vinny topic...i think if the painter guy hadn't screwed him over for like 6 years, things would've been different.

Now I don't want to be controversial and I certainly don't want to point any fingers here, but remember how I said I've been thinking about Vinny a lot lately? You know what's one of the thoughts I had? I understand that he most likely suffered a heart attack while shoveling snow... (I still can't believe he's gone :() But listen guys, and I'm dead serious about this. (kind of embarrassed to admit it, but we're all friends, right?) I've seriously had at least two mental/emotional/psychological breakdowns (or maybe they're panic attacks?) over my car in the past couple of years. Seriously. I'm talking physically debilitating panic attacks. Over a stupid car. WTF is wrong with me?! Anyway, I wonder sometimes if stress over Twisted Twins played a role in Vinny's heart attack. Guys, I'm not kidding about this. I remember reading his posts like it was yesterday. It was almost like the "classical stages of grief" they talk about in psychology class. I remember him being frustrated, angry, sad, the whole range of emotions... over a car. And guys, I'm experiencing the same stuff myself, and it scares me.



This thread makes me have really bad thoughts :( I sometimes wonder why I even got into cars in the first place. Where do we draw the line??

I've been there brother. Don't give up! The one thing I know for sure is that every time I've thrown up my hands and given up on a car, I ALWAYS regret it later. I've tried to give up on mustangs altogether. You know what happens? Within weeks I miss the raw power and crudeness of a mustang and I just buy another one! (meanwhile, I lost money selling the mustang, and I lost more money selling the car I tried to replace it with!)

I think we (SBZ) all have the same raw instinct or desire or genetic coding that makes us crave the adrenaline rush of driving a fast car. But sometimes we make poor decisions trying to feed that desire. (I'm guilty)




The line gets drawn when we know what we think we want, spend much time, money, sweat, and blood getting it where we think we want it and realizing we don't know ourselves as well as we thought.


This statement was so profound, I'm still reeling from it. I really need to sit down and ponder that one for a while.

[Sharad]

I realized that I will never be happy with any setup no matter how much power or how fast it is.I have a problem I suppose.

I have that same disease. It's called "never satisfied". It is simultaneously my greatest asset and greatest weakness. Asset because it pushes me to succeed, weakness because I'm always miserable.

[cstreu1026]

For me when the car become more work than fun its time to step back take a look at what the priorities are. I love going to NMRA races but seeing what the guys in the heads up classes go through between rounds always reminds me that its not for me. It bad enough to fix something that breaks but the first time I was forced to tear down my car I would probbly just pack up and go home.

[Steves LX]

As my wife likes to say, does it ever end!! Will you ever be happy!! The answer is no. My car started out just like many others a stock 5.0 running 14's on street tires. As I met people on here and made friends all my troubles and headaches started. Now I am by no means driving the fastest car on this board. But my slow low 11 second street car is by no means more fun then driving my wifes stock coupe. That is unless I run into someone on the street or at the track. I love driving my wifes car other than it's a little slower than mine. No damn cage to crawl in and out of. No fumes to smell. No bucking around at low speeds through parking lots. The seats are comfortable and no detroit locker engaging and disengaging. The list goes on and on. I think where some of us run into problems is we want that perfect combo and like someone posted earlier. Some of us just dont have the cash or want it now. So you go with something a little different than top of the line on some parts. And you run your car and your ET doesn't match your MPH. Or someone else has a similar combo as yours and is running quicker. So before you know it you are changing parts again or adding parts and the cycle just continues over and over.

[skeptiq]

I think where some of us run into problems is we want that perfect combo and like someone posted earlier.

The combo's are endless and we all have our own ideas and thoughts which is what drives us to try different things in the hopes of finding that elusive "perfect combo."

I am on Mustang #3 and I have only had it since July of this year and I have changed my mind about what I want to do with it probably a hundred times so far. I "think" I have it nailed now, but whose to say when I get it there, I don't change my mind again... and the cycle continues.

Someone else nailed it when they said building multiple cars, however (for me anyway) money is a limited resource and I am forced to what I can when I can afford it. If money was no object, I would have 4 or 5 stangs in different flavors from bolt on to dedicated track car.

Ben

[chad393na]

This subject is a big part of the reason I sold my coupe. Had the car for 16 yrs, been through numerous combos but once it went nines it turned into a great big headache. Went auto because I knew at that level it would be much more reliable than leaving it a stick. Yea right! That was partially my fault for not spending the money I wasted on a good tranny instead of a "built" pos. Live and learn I guess! I learned from all the mistakes I made on that car and won't be doing them on my '95 GTS. Keep it a high ten low eleven second car with a stick and just have fun! I am keeping the stock cam and completely stock suspension for as long as I can because those are two of the things that seem to kill driveability in a hurry. :D

[Blowpastyou]

There is no line. They are all endless projects that you will never be completely happy with.

absolutely correct!!!!

[Rich]

I think I have A.D.D. so that doesn't help with this dilemma. Part of me likes just hanging out in the garage putting the pieces together. I can't tell you how many times I've completed a project and then sold it because I got bored.

The other part of me misses my old 85 GT that was basically stock. Driving it everywhere and racing all weekend long.

Once I finish my current car, I plan on keeping the power plant fairly simple. I just want to be able to drive it anywhere...track, cruise ins, etc. I'm really debating the roll bar/cage thing because I don't want to lose the ability to take my kids with me.

A decent 351w or 408, built AOD for highway cruising, full interior, etc. Change the oil a few times a year, drive it to the track on drag radials, run some mid-low 11's...cruise on back home.

I have said it before...I would trade my current car and every performance part I have for a bone stock 85 or 86 GT... guess that's my A.D.D. kicking in!

[firestang70]

I absolutely LOVE my car and think its perfect. Awesome,looks,sound,pretty decent power. Unfortunately my wife didn't see it the same way. I did the suspension,gears. I added the Whipple, needed a different clutch, added a cage so I wouldn't be booted from the track. What I should have done was added some LTs, cams and me and the wife pleased. She didn't like the clutch,blower intimidated her and felt trapped with a cage in the car (just her had double swing outs). She enjoys cool cars and loved the looks of mine and part of the reason we got the car was to have fun together with it. I should have left well enough alone. She is cool enough to let me get a 2011 5.0. This time will be NA bolt ons, cool exhaust,wheels and have fun.

[mustangboy]

This thread is making me think again about selling my car. Damn this damn car add

[may93]

Over the years I've had numerous projects that I have worked on and then sometimes sold before they were finished such as my coupe in my profile pics. A big reason I think is that with (3) kids, a house payment, and everyday life expenses I never really bought what I wanted but instead something I could afford at the time. Then I would slowly fix them up using overtime money or the money I made working on someone else’s project. I built cars with Nitrous, Superchargers and did all my own work including painting. Some projects were completely stripped and then put back together taking 3 to 4 years start to finish. By the time I was done I had found something else I wanted. I can’t say I regret it as I did learn a lot in regards to the Mustangs but I should have spent the money and bought what I wanted years ago and then kept it. When I saw the horsepower numbers of the new Mustangs I knew that my project mustang days were over. I intend to buy a newer GT 500, and or a 2011 GT. Do some gear swaps too include exhaust with a few other mods and just enjoy the ride. Those cars in stock form will out perform a moded fox body, have perfect paint and interior and absolutely no rust. Instead of hours sent in the garage sanding and welding I'll spend my time racing on Friday nights for test and tune and then back in the heated garage until the following weekend. 20 years later I'll have that mustang I bought new that still looks new. Nothing wrong with project cars when money is not an issue but when their done on a budget and over a long period of time one can easily lose interest.

[k062693w]

I will add my $.02 ...
If I had the $$$ and was physically able, I would be driving a flippin Pro Stock car with a license plate !!!
My DD has all the creature comforts that I need, So why do I need A/C, Power Steering, Etc. On a car that gets driven occasionally ??? I think the problem is that too many people want to take their DD Mustang and make it run 8's and expect it to have the street manners of a Prius !!! Don't get me wrong, I know not everyone (me included) has bottomless pockets and can't afford to have multiple cars for multiple duties, But that is where the decision needs to be made ... Do I want a DD or a Race Car !!!
I mean come on people is this STANGBANGERZ or STANGCRUISERZ ???

[orangedemon331]

I will add my $.02 ...
If I had the $$$ and was physically able, I would be driving a flippin Pro Stock car with a license plate !!!
My DD has all the creature comforts that I need, So why do I need A/C, Power Steering, Etc. On a car that gets driven occasionally ??? I think the problem is that too many people want to take their DD Mustang and make it run 8's and expect it to have the street manners of a Prius !!! Don't get me wrong, I know not everyone (me included) has bottomless pockets and can't afford to have multiple cars for multiple duties, But that is where the decision needs to be made ... Do I want a DD or a Race Car !!!
I mean come on people is this STANGBANGERZ or STANGCRUISERZ ???

Oh dont worry about me, nothing is going to stop me from achieving the goals i have for my two projects! And both of my cars will be considered street driven race cars! Over the last 2yrs ive lost my patience with these cars but i have a handle on it now! I technically dont have the money to just build either of them but over time i WILL finish them! I consider these to be my hobby and i actually enjoy just working on them period, although getting one of them running will be nice too! As far as stockish....... My car was 331/turbo/tko600/3.27 gears and was fun but i got bored in 2 weeks at that level and it put down 580hp/610tq! So I started the madness that i have now, sometimes i regret it but i just look at it as there is no turning back now! ;)

[k062693w]

Oh dont worry about me, nothing is going to stop me from achieving the goals i have for my two projects! And both of my cars will be considered street driven race cars! Over the last 2yrs ive lost my patience with these cars but i have a handle on it now! I technically dont have the money to just build either of them but over time i WILL finish them! I consider these to be my hobby and i actually enjoy just working on them period, although getting one of them running will be nice too! As far as stockish....... My car was 331/turbo/tko600/3.27 gears and was fun but i got bored in 2 weeks at that level and it put down 580hp/610tq! So I started the madness that i have now, sometimes i regret it but i just look at it as there is no turning back now! ;)

That was the point of my post ... I would have no problem climbing over a cage, Driving a groundthumping, Rough riding, No street manners type car !!!
But if people are not willing to give up the creature comforts and have things break, need replaced, etc. Then by all means they should go by a brand new car and turn on their A/C, Adjust the power seats, listen to the radio, And use the power window switch to get their time slip ... But don't expect to run single digits !!!
As I said, if I'm going to build a street/race car, It's going to be just that ... A RACE CAR with tags !!! LOL

[Sharad]

Let's not turn this into a "what is a streetcar" debate. You'll not find a person that is more hardcore than me when it comes to that topic. I'm right there with you on driving a racecar with a license plate, only I'd choose a Pro-Mod so I could run a power adder. I mean, c'mon, this is my "streetcar":

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/rearoutside.jpg

I didn't start this thread to debate the mechanical differences between a racecar and a streetcar. My intention was to discuss the personal sacrifices that we make in order to build our racecar/streetcars.

And yes, :sbowns: and if anyone doubts that, I've got a 25.2 LX with a ProCharged 427" that will do the talking for me!!! :cool1:



I will add my $.02 ...
If I had the $$$ and was physically able, I would be driving a flippin Pro Stock car with a license plate !!!
My DD has all the creature comforts that I need, So why do I need A/C, Power Steering, Etc. On a car that gets driven occasionally ??? I think the problem is that too many people want to take their DD Mustang and make it run 8's and expect it to have the street manners of a Prius !!! Don't get me wrong, I know not everyone (me included) has bottomless pockets and can't afford to have multiple cars for multiple duties, But that is where the decision needs to be made ... Do I want a DD or a Race Car !!!
I mean come on people is this STANGBANGERZ or STANGCRUISERZ ???

[Steves LX]

This subject is a big part of the reason I sold my coupe. Had the car for 16 yrs, been through numerous combos but once it went nines it turned into a great big headache. Went auto because I knew at that level it would be much more reliable than leaving it a stick. Yea right! That was partially my fault for not spending the money I wasted on a good tranny instead of a "built" pos. Live and learn I guess! I learned from all the mistakes I made on that car and won't be doing them on my '95 GTS. Keep it a high ten low eleven second car with a stick and just have fun! I am keeping the stock cam and completely stock suspension for as long as I can because those are two of the things that seem to kill driveability in a hurry. :D

Couldn't agree with you more on the high 10 low 11 second street car. I am running low 11's now with a stick. I have some plans over this winter to freshen up my bottom end. I have been contemplating on porting the heads to run high tens next year. But once again more money and I am sure more headaches. I might just keep the heads as they are and be happy with it. After all if you drive your car on the street in the summer, winter , fall, and spring like I do. Once you get deep into the tens and the nines it's just not even really feasible anymore unless you are the only one out on the streets. Not to mention unless you have a sleeper you just draw more attention to yourself with the cops and everyone else around you.

[Metcalf Racing]

I'm as Hardcore as they come. Ill drive anything. I'm saying at a certain point they lose their fun factor to a certain degree

[Sharad]

I'm as Hardcore as they come. Ill drive anything. I'm saying at a certain point they lose their fun factor to a certain degree

Well said. The faster cars are more fun at Wide Open Throttle. Other than that, owning/building them can be a headache.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I have a daily driver very lightly modded 91 lx the motor is bone stock, gears, cold air intake, lowered, 5 lug, just little stuff. I drive it everyday and have for the past 5 years even when there's snow on the ground. It has by far been the most enjoyable get in and drive car I've ever owned, but now I'm ready for more I'm bored with it.......... I made the mistake of driving a buddies car that had a 347 in it and now i've got the bug.....

Well if SOMEBODY would've listened to me when i told him "don't F'in put that damned blower on an 11:1 stroker that's already making well over 400hp at the crank, you're gonna split the damn thing in half" the car in question wouldn't be blown up at the moment :HYF:

But instead i get a text saying "dude! the Gtech just read 499hp at the wheels! woohooo!!"

Then a month or so later it's "well, it's smoking really bad out the dip stick tube"


:lol:


I just want enough power that it can and does get out from under me when i'm least expecting it...i don't wanna get bored with my car. I think 400hp at the wheels should keep me entertained for quite a while.

[Pitbull1052]

Well if SOMEBODY would've listened to me when i told him "don't F'in put that damned blower on an 11:1 stroker that's already making well over 400hp at the crank, you're gonna split the damn thing in half" the car in question wouldn't be blown up at the moment :HYF:

But instead i get a text saying "dude! the Gtech just read 499hp at the wheels! woohooo!!"

Then a month or so later it's "well, it's smoking really bad out the dip stick tube"


:lol:






I just want enough power that it can and does get out from under me when i'm least expecting it...i don't wanna get bored with my car. I think 400hp at the wheels should keep me entertained for quite a while.








LMAO have you seen the pictures of the most rescent carnage? it's so pretty I just finished tearing the bottom end down and man it was bad......

[k062693w]

Let's not turn this into a "what is a streetcar" debate. You'll not find a person that is more hardcore than me when it comes to that topic. I'm right there with you on driving a racecar with a license plate, only I'd choose a Pro-Mod so I could run a power adder. I mean, c'mon, this is my "streetcar":

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/rearoutside.jpg

I didn't start this thread to debate the mechanical differences between a racecar and a streetcar. My intention was to discuss the personal sacrifices that we make in order to build our racecar/streetcars.

And yes, :sbowns: and if anyone doubts that, I've got a 25.2 LX with a ProCharged 427" that will do the talking for me!!! :cool1:


:bigthumb I wasn't trying to make a Street Car/ Race car debate !!!

I was just trying to state that if you want a single digit car then build a single digit car, But be willing to accept ALL of the headaches that go along with it ... It's kind of the old "You can't have your cake and eat it too" thing ... I'm sure I could have worded it a little different, But I was just trying to make the point that if they are not willing to put up with the delays/headaches/breakdowns/etc. then a race car is not for them ...
Again just my $.02 not that anyone has to agree !!! :lol:

[Sharad]

I was just trying to state that if you want a single digit car then build a single digit car, But be willing to accept ALL of the headaches that go along with it ... It's kind of the old "You can't have your cake and eat it too" thing ... I'm sure I could have worded it a little different, But I was just trying to make the point that if they are not willing to put up with the delays/headaches/breakdowns/etc. then a race car is not for them ...
Again just my $.02 not that anyone has to agree !!! :lol:

Yeah, I guess I was whining a little in this thread. It's just frustrating how much crap you have to go through to build a fast car. My dad keeps telling me "if it was easy, everyone would do it!"

Wise man.

[k062693w]

Yeah, I guess I was whining a little in this thread. It's just frustrating how much crap you have to go through to build a fast car. My dad keeps telling me "if it was easy, everyone would do it!"

Wise man.

:bigthumb I agree !!!
And I don't see it as whining !!! :lol:

[Pitbull1052]

:bigthumb I agree !!!
And I don't see it as whining !!! :lol:




I have a buddy in the middle of a build and he's having the same issue and that's what I tell him all the time..... "if building a bad ass car was easy everyone would have one"..... then I usually threatn him with physical harm if he says he's going to quit again.... that usually does the trick....

[facemelter71]

My daily driver other than my 86 F-250 is my mustang.

No A/C,no shitty smog pump,no power steering,no trunk lining,back seat just kinda back there not held in with anything.Its loud,bumpy,hard to turn,hot in the summer. But the loud peddle under my right foot works and thats all I need. I drive the shit out of that car.

[Maximus]

Yeah, I guess I was whining a little in this thread. It's just frustrating how much crap you have to go through to build a fast car. My dad keeps telling me "if it was easy, everyone would do it!"

Wise man.

Some people call it whinning (Builder or painter), when really its frustration(you).

[jack90gt]

I agree with everything said here....i was at my happyest point when i was driving my high 10 to low 11 second car....It was so fun on the street and still add all the comforts ac,heat,wipers everything.....Yes i have mustang add also as i have had 23 in the last 4 years working on 24 now

[blue5.8]

I have a buddy in the middle of a build and he's having the same issue and that's what I tell him all the time..... "if building a bad ass car was easy everyone would have one"..... then I usually threatn him with physical harm if he says he's going to quit again.... that usually does the trick....

REALLY WHO IS THE FRIEND? :flipoff:

[Pitbull1052]

REALLY WHO IS THE FRIEND? :flipoff:



You asshole :bigthumb lol

[RIXXX93GT]

Really good thread. After about 5 years of hesitation and second guessing I will soon have a cage in the car. I look at it this way, I dont have loads of money to have two or three different street/strip/cruising/show car type vehicles. Most of the people on this board are in the same boat. SO you end up picking a goal and you really dont know every detail of what the end result will be but there you are. You started out wanting something faster, then you wanted to break into the 12's, then 11's, you start driving it less because you have it tore apart all the time or the kids tire of smelling like exhaust fumes. Next thing you know tracks are asking you to put a cage in or slow down. SO you decide on a bar, yea just a bolt in 6 point, wait if I get that block I want for Christmas Ill be well below 9.99 in no time, better go 10 point cause it will get you down to 8.50 and thats hauling the mail. Then you realize you havent driven the thing in 2 months except for the trial runs down the road to see if the latest $500 dollar part picked you up any power. What was the goal again? If I could pick I would have one 2011 after work weekend car, one fox coupe stock except for HCI and one fox coupe for all out racing like an 8.50 type monster. Which of those do I have....NONE. Gotta love this hobby.

[bbfstanger]

its the thrill /fun of going fast,chirpin tires etc. that gets us all hooked!
next thing you know bolt-ons start happening then you need a rollbar cause the car runs good,then you wanna go a little quicker and before you know it you have a solid type suspension the rides like crap.
the exh. fumes are always tasty and leave no need for cologne lmao!
before you know it you have a certified chassis racecar!
i love it!

[Stangman]

that's why my '94 with the all the miles on it just sorta stays the way it is. It runs too good to tear into, and is juuuuust fast enough to get me in trouble. Would I like it to run faster? Hell yess! Would I want to deal with a tempermental bitch of a car? No.

I've got GT40's, cam, headers, intake, stage2 clutch, the whole nine yards for that car... just cant bring myself to do it yet. It just runs tooooo good.

I like hopping in a car, firing it up the first try, and rolling. No matter the weather. Except snow. My '94 has just enough power to spin over the 315 drag radials, and just little enough power to not kill myself driving in the rain with them... which I've done! And it did extremely well!

I love sleepers and I love outrageous cars, but I think I'd pick a sleeper over a crazy all-out car. Thats just me. I want to drive my cars on the street, in traffic, to work, to shows, etc.

My '88 whenever it gets finished may be nothing more than a high 12 car if I'm lucky, but I'll have fun with it, and it oughta have VERY good street manners.

My '85 Coupe... when it gets the 460... It's gonna be a plain-jane 460 with a cam and a carb... if I can get a stick shift in it, that would be nice, but I want it to be nice and tame til I kick into it. But the point of that car, is a stock hood, 10 holes, and porno red interior. No frills. total street sleeper with good manners.

Idk, maybe I build my cars in relation to my budget, which puts me in that frame of mind.

i'd be hard pressed to put a cage in a car, unless it was done exactly, EXACTLY the way I wanted it, and could retain FULL usage of the interior. Otherwise your interior is pretty much useless and you might as well just sit on a crate.

In the end I agree, we just add one more thing, or tweak one more part to squeeze every ounce of usage out of a car... They all become snowballs, but it's fun lol

[Blackout]

Well, just like alot of all of you, it does seem that no matter what part you add to your car, something else always comes up before you can finish or at least get to a decent stopping point. I myself have ran into issues building my car and am still running into problems. My car is a fully everyday driver car that I have basically bought all the parts to make it support a turbo setup. I am looking to make the car run as well as I can with keeping it a fully dressed (no engine part deletes, full interior, ect...) I know that if I keep the current setup on my car there will be alot more things that I will need to buy to make it the setup I want. But like I said, I am wanting it to look and drive as stock as possible until I stomp the pedal. Unfortunately this requires even more work in fabrication to ensure that the stock look and drivability is maintained.

Unlike some of you, I have never owned a really fast car. I have been enjoying my low 13/high 12 sec. cars but will forever be trying to make the car complete to my liking. I myself know where my stopping point is but it will take forever getting there. I am just hoping that one day I will be able to enjoy it when it's all done.

[95redstang]

i love my 95.. its been to the track once or twice this year.. mid 12's and i can drop the top and go for a cruise with my 3 little girls... i had a 347 built for it with afr 185's a couple years ago and decided that i didnt want to go that route.. its convertible and i didnt want to cage it.. i am so much happier that we went the mountaneer motor route. there is more power to be made if i want it without spraying or boosting it...its a fun car...

[Stangman]

i love my 95.. its been to the track once or twice this year.. mid 12's and i can drop the top and go for a cruise with my 3 little girls... i had a 347 built for it with afr 185's a couple years ago and decided that i didnt want to go that route.. its convertible and i didnt want to cage it.. i am so much happier that we went the mountaneer motor route. there is more power to be made if i want it without spraying or boosting it...its a fun car...

:bigthumb

[Sharad]

Thread Revival!!

My car is coming together very quickly and all of the hard work is starting to pay off. Maybe my dad was right? "Hang in there, it'll all be worth it in the end"

[Walter]

Post up some pics.

[bangingears]

Thread Revival!!

My car is coming together very quickly and all of the hard work is starting to pay off. Maybe my dad was right? "Hang in there, it'll all be worth it in the end"

how is your dad? he still have his GT?

[Sharad]

Post up some pics.

In chronological order (from the work I've been doing)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/reppin50.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/somebars.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/x275.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/thewholegang.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNDAtMjAxMTAyMDYtMTkzMC5qcGc.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00241-20110208-1607.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00245-20110209-1548.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00262-20110212-1003.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00268-20110212-1717.jpg




how is your dad? he still have his GT?

He's doing great. Hoping to move down here asap. The 93 GT is still squeaky clean in the garage, but he has a GT500 now so he has to divide his attention between them. :bigthumb

[Walter]

Looks badass Sharad!

[Sharad]

Looks badass Sharad!

Thanks bro! It's been a long time coming, but Rob did a great job on the cage, so now it's all on me to put this thing together ASAP. :cool1:

[dsmawd350]

looks like the rearend took a beating on the open trailer on the way don the florida!

[Sharad]

looks like the rearend took a beating on the open trailer on the way don the florida!

Yep, snow and salt on the way down. Nothing I could do about it. It took me several hours to scrub off all of the oxidation on the floorboard and in the engine compartment. I hope Rob shot some clear on the "Source Interlink" writing on the rear end like I asked him to, but I haven't even looked at the top of the housing yet. I'll probably work on that tomorrow. Need to adjust all of the control arms, turn the driver's side shock around (knobs are against the housing), paint the housing, and put it all back together.

I should be able to install the engine and trans this week. That's the plan anyway.

Thanks again for helping Rob get the rollcage done.

[Rick93coupe]

Looks great man!

[Kwik92GT]

Looks great man!


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j23/Kwik92GT/tarzan.gif

[Sharad]

Looks great man!

Thanks Rick!


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j23/Kwik92GT/tarzan.gif

WTF?

[Kwik92GT]

LOL Inside joke with Rick. :D

Car looks good. Good luck with rest of build. :bigthumb

[Sharad]

Today was a big day. Tomorrow will be even better:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00293-20110217-1825.jpg

[Sharad]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00332-20110218-1604.jpg



http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00331-20110218-1604.jpg

[cobra429boss]

Damn that car is badass..

[Rob]

MORE CAGE PICS!

[Sharad]

Damn that car is badass..

Thanks! :cool1:



MORE CAGE PICS!

LOL! You sound like me for the past year. :lol:

I'm waiting to take the cage pics after I paint it. Should be soon. Possibly this week. :)

[uknowho1702]

Well I just bought my first Mustang a few months ago with the plan of just finishing putting it back together and driving the piss out of it. Like so many others I started taking it further apart before ever making progress on making it drivable. The car went from "All it needs is the upper intake, tb, exhaust and drive shaft put in" to well im going to gut the car, lose all power everything including steering, and 2 months into it I still dont have the car running! Oh and did I mention I have 2 other completely disassembled projects...1 being a 59 vw i drove 3 times and started a ground up resto 5yrs ago lol...But im hoping the stang will be just fast enough when this round is over to at least keep me happy until next winter when I can carry out my master plan!!

[uknowho1702]

I realized that I will never be happy with any setup no matter how much power or how fast it is.I have a problem I suppose.My uncle drives a top fuel funny car and still says he would like to go faster!:bangwall:

[Sharad]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00186-20110411-1428.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00206-20110416-1414.jpg

[draggin50]

All I can say is HOLY SHIT!!! That is nasty!

[Sharad]

;) Thanks. I'm hustlin' man. I'm ready to hear this thing fire up. It might be before the end of the month.

[uknowho1702]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00186-20110411-1428.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00206-20110416-1414.jpg

Nice nice! Who did the cage? Moly I assume?

[chris91]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/sraldiris/IMG00206-20110416-1414.jpg

Why is it Ford couldnt put enough paint in the bays to actually keep it one color after so long? Mine is the same way only with 48k miles on it. But honestly, who cares about the bay when you have something like that sitting in between it. :lol:

[Sharad]

Nice nice! Who did the cage? Moly I assume?

Thanks. It's a full chrome-moly 25.2 built by Rob Lewis at Rigid Race Cars in Williamsburg, Ohio. Rob does incredible work.



Why is it Ford couldnt put enough paint in the bays to actually keep it one color after so long? Mine is the same way only with 48k miles on it. But honestly, who cares about the bay when you have something like that sitting in between it. :lol:

+1 man! My boss at the magazine was giving me crap about the engine compartment. He thought the engine bay was dirty. He must've forgotten that the Foxes had bare primer in the engine compartment back in the 80s. No worries though. DYNAMIC wants me to send them my trans & converter after initial testing so they can fine tune the converter and add their latest upgrades to the tranny. I'll fill and paint the engine bay when I pull the drivetrain.

BTW, it cracks me up that that your car has 48k miles on it. Our cars really ARE twins. I think my odometer reads 48,120.

[chris91]

+1 man! My boss at the magazine was giving me crap about the engine compartment. He thought the engine bay was dirty. He must've forgotten that the Foxes had bare primer in the engine compartment back in the 80s. No worries though. DYNAMIC wants me to send them my trans & converter after initial testing so they can fine tune the converter and add their latest upgrades to the tranny. I'll fill and paint the engine bay when I pull the drivetrain.

BTW, it cracks me up that that your car has 48k miles on it. Our cars really ARE twins. I think my odometer reads 48,120.

Yeah wont take much to make it look like new again. And yeah thats a little crazy about the mileage. Mine is at 48,8XX, so really I guess I should say 49k. The color and mileage are about the only things they share though. Yours is a straight beast! Mine will never be like that. :bigthumb

[GT50]

There is no line. They are all endless projects that you will never be completely happy with.

truer words have never been spoken!!!:bigthumb