E85?

[cobraman302]

Anyone running a boosted mod motor car converted to E85 here? I am considering swapping the stock blower to the Whipple 3.4 or maybe even the Eaton M122 from the GT500 along with running on E85. Cheaper alternative to making 600+ rwhp. I wanna see if anyone has feedback/experience/tips for running E85 witha blower on these cars. :thanks:

[djom1cincy]

interesting.

[AntiRice427]

I have ran it before in my na car. John 05yellowgt runs it in his procharged 05. It works well. Runs cooler, higher octane, and it cost less. You just need to be sure that your fuel system can handle it. It takes 20-30% more e85 to create the same amount of energy as gasoline.

[cobraman302]

Yeah i planned on 60lb. injectors (may go next step up) and twin fuel pump setup, and I already have the Kenne Bell BAP. There should be an adapter kit being made/sold very soon for the 03-04 Cobras to use the Eaton M122 GT500 blowers in place of the small M112 Eatons.

[cstreu1026]

Go as big as you can afford. John is running 80 lb. injectors and 3 fuel pumps (GT pumps I think) and it is just about out of fuel with stock heads and cams.

[NXcoupe]

We have done a bunch of tuning and work with E85 at my shop. My vert made 600 rwhp for over 2 years driven a lot on nice days, with no problems at all. John is going on over 2 years with his now, he runs a triple pump returnless setup and 80 lb injectors to make over 700 rwhp. I would keep it return style just for keeping cost down, if you can keep it to twin supercar pumps and a BAP, you will still be ok. John's setup presented a lot of issues with pushing the envelope of the factory electronics. Any other info just get with me.

[Blackout]

From what i have heard, you have to have injectors and really a fuel system that will hold up to the corrosiveness of E85. I have heard however that the ones who are running it, love it. Sounds like a good idea to me, it just takes some tuning to get the fuel right for the E85. From what I understand it's also alot more efficient but you use more fuel. It's all a give take kinda deal :)

[cstreu1026]

Any modern fuel system should be fine. The only that would be easily corroded by the ethanol would be bare aluminum.

[Mista Bone]

if you're goona run E85, check with the fuel pump maker you plan on using.

Aeromotive pumps don't like E85, the glue holding the magnets disolves.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/quick85supra/e85004.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/quick85supra/e85010.jpg


The glue for magnets is destroyed, it flakes and powders off. The "Gunk" on the magnet is actual magnet material that was ground off do to the center rubbing self/machining itself in the magnet. I have another Aeromotive pump and you can hit the magnets with a hammer and they dont budge, I guess the glue and alky is a no go.

Nothing like some magnet paste to spice up your fuel stream.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/quick85supra/e85006.jpg

Damage was a head (Honda) and set of injectors, $2500 in damage. The owner noticed the motor kept get leaner and leaner no matter how much fuel he added after it was tuned properly.

http://www.onecamonly.com/general-tech/2767-e85-aeromotive-pump-failure.html

[Jeff88coupe]

That was early Aeromotive pumps...they changed their adhesive several years ago. I've been running my A1000 for 2+ years now with E85 with no issues. I don't even drain my fuel cell over the winter.

[cobraman302]

I appreciate all the info guys. I read on modularfords where guys have been running e85 at 600-650rwhp levels on stock fuel rails and lines (for the most part) and no issues with components corroding at all. Right now its an idea to toss up and want to make sure there are people local that can confidently tune the car with something like a 2.3 Whipple on e85 pushing 20-22psi thats not a pure drag car. Its a weekend cruiser that I want to run high 10's in.

[NXcoupe]

Just for the record, E85 is NOT corrosive. It is Methanol, not Ethanol that has the base corrosive properties. E85 is basically corn alcohol and is not corrosive in that respect. I had Walbro inline pumps, stock tank, all braided black hose, fuel rails, etc, etc. Stuff was perfect when the car was disassembled two years later. Everything works great. Just like Jeff, I have absolutely no worries with it. I was not able to run stock rails with my intake I had, so I swapped to aftermarket fuel rails from Trick Flow, with their regulator which is all aromotive in disguise. I know for a fact that 500+ hp with Ethanol requires a butt load of fuel, so a stock intank and inline booster will NOT be enough. I tried it and it would not keep up. Verified it by going with larger injectors first then made pulls and it still went lean up top. Put a dual fuel pump run in parrallel, not series, and a/f was perfect on it all the way through the rpm range. I would recommend a Weldon pump setup, they say theirs is compatible with ethanol and gasoline. Their alcohol pumps are for Methanol. remember, almost all pump gas is E10 or E15, so chances are you have ethonal in your tank right now. Even at that low of percentage, if it was corrosive, it would still do damage. off my soap box now.

[Mista Bone]

That was early Aeromotive pumps...they changed their adhesive several years ago. I've been running my A1000 for 2+ years now with E85 with no issues. I don't even drain my fuel cell over the winter.

Jeff, thanks for that info, I'll pass it on. This did happen last year but who knows when he bought the pump.

[cstreu1026]

Even 100% ethanol is not corrosive. We get it all the time at work in regular steel drums and it goes in to consumer products without there ever being a problem.

[Blackout]

ok, thanks guys for the clearifying. I was going off hear-say and thats why I said that "I Heard". But anyways, thanks for clearing that up.

[djom1cincy]

So what size injectors and pump would be needed to run e85 on say a 03 cobra?

[cobraman302]

From whta I have been reading up on E85 I would just go with a triple Ford GT pump setup and 80lb injectors. But at this point I am no expert and this all depends on how much boost and HP you plan to make. I have read guys with ported eatons on E85 and 60lb injectors maxing out their injectors at about 560rwhp. You are really only going to see the benefits of E85 if you are cranking up the boost and putting the timing in it. From what I have researched E85 is a 109 octane in Summer and 105 octane in winter (minimum rating).

[NXcoupe]

I made 600 hp with 60 lb injectors on E85. I would say that 60's are at there limit around that hp with E85, I would guess I was at 90% efficiency at that point. And yes, the triple pumps on a returnless system is required, or just go with a return style and a weldon pump.

[cobraman302]

Yeah I am still confused though. There is a guy that is running a 2.3 Whipple on 22lbs of boost on a untouched motor with twin GT pumps, GT 500 BAP, dual FPDMs, stock rails, -8 feed, 80 ln inj and here is his number compared to 100 octane....

He states on the dual pump setup on 80lb injectors running 24* timing and 21-22lbs boost hes getting about 90% FPDC. Without the BAP it was maxed out 100% at 6k rpm's. So is this saying you can run dual pumps safely with a BAP and 80lb injectors? on 700 rwhp??? Yes, 700rwhp on a little ol 2.3 Whipple and E85 and basic fuel mods, without touching the heads and on stock manifolds.

I would attach the PDF of the graph if we would fix the flippin attachment deal.

E85 ----------SAE 704.8/655 rwtq
--------------STD 719/668
100 oct------SAE 626/579 (21-22 psi, 21 deg)

[NXcoupe]

Yes, all a bap does is up the voltage the pumps see. So yeah, if you increase the voltage and push the pump harder, it's going to supply enough fuel, but what happens when that pump burns up from the added current, say like when you are in 4th gear at the top of a 1/4 mile pass? I know they work well and I have used them too, but just throwing that out there. Most bap setups are triggerred by either boost or rpm, so they don't push the pumps except when they are needed. It's like putting a larger pump on without spending the money.

[05yellowgt]

Go with 80lb injectors. You should be able to do what you are wanting to do with the Dual GT pumps and BAP if you are wanting to save money. I'd go to a return setup if I had to do it over again. I'm running 27psi and 23* of timing on my setup. the 27psi of boost demands a LOT and I mean a LOT of fuel. This caused some interesting tuning issues. There is a hard limit you may run into in terms of the fuel flow per minute of the ECU in an 03-04 cobra and you will have to scale a BUNCH of tables to get around that. Luckily we didn't run into a hard limit on the 05+ ECU. I'm using over 13lbs/min of fuel at WOT. I think the limit on the 03-04 cobra ECU is somewhere around 8lbs/min.

Going return takes a lot of the difficulty out of the tuning, but it still can be done. Which ever way you go I would highly recommend looking into FORE Precision works fuel components. I'm running their billet fuel hat, y-block, and fuel rails and they are top notch. They even have an "E" series that is specially coated for use with Ethanol fuels. I am not using it and have their standard anodized coating and my components have shown ZERO ill effects from running ethanol. I ran E85 on stock pumps, lines, and rails for over a year when still n/a and I have been running for FORE products for 1 year of being boosted.

[white01]

I just finished my truck up on E85 and love the results so far. It has not been dynoed but the seat of the pants is telling me that my turbo truck loves this fuel. Go with the 80's. I have 60's and have to upgrade my entire fuel system to up my boost past 13 psi. I loved it from 15/16 on my 93 oct tune. I think my injectors are probably close to being maxed. I have not calculated the duty cycle.....kinda scared.

Rich