Boosted mod motor on E-85?

[quik lx]

Anyone running a superchargered or turbocharged fuel injected 2,3, or 4V on E-85? If so did you have to change the injectors, or just richen it up in the computer? Any other changes? I have plenty of E-85 stations around me, I just wanna get some info for spring.

[Markcore]

05yellowGT or what ever his screen name is. Procharged 3v that makes big powa on e85! I'm sure he'll be in soon.

[NXcoupe]

Larger injectors, fuel system that can handle up to 30% more fuel demand for starters.

[Jeff88coupe]

Yep...just need a tune and a fuel system/injectors that can supply 30-40% more fuel at WOT vs. gas. I would think you would pickup a good amount of power by switching to e85....it acts like a intercooler on boosted cars..plus you can run more timing at WOT vs. gas with it. I bet your motor would pickup at least 30rwhp by going with E85. Check out www.e85performance.net

[05yellowgt]

Boosted motors LOVE E85. I'm running just north of 700rwhp on my setup. What fuel system do you currently run? I can give you a pretty good idea of where you need to go to support your car on E85 if I know your current setup.

[quik lx]

I have a Glenn's internally sumped tank, A1000 pump, -10 feed line to the rails, 38LB injectors, A1000 regulator. I kinda overdid the fuel system for this or a turbo set-up in the future. May need injectors.

My next worry would be the rods/pistons in the motor, I think they are approaching the limit now.:confused:

[cstreu1026]

Does the engine have the same rods and pistons as every other 2V 4.6? If so I don't think I would push it any further.

[bobtsgt]

I think those older Roush engines were just a supercharger slapped on and a safe tune added.

[quik lx]

Yeah, it's a 2001 stock longblock

[NXcoupe]

actually E85 resists detonation and burns slower, so it is easier on parts. I don't know about a lot more power as been stated above, I just know it's a great peace of mind knowing it's not going to detonate itself to death. Turbo engines make lots more power because they create more exhaust gas because of the increased amount of fuel you have to burn to get the same power.

[cstreu1026]

But its not detonation that will implode a stock mod motor shortblock once you make beyond 400 RWHP...it's POS powdered metal rods and cast pistons that can't handle the pressure.

[quik lx]

But its not detonation that will implode a stock mod motor shortblock once you make beyond 400 RWHP...it's POS powdered metal rods and cast pistons that can't handle the pressure.

WERD!!!!!!

[NXcoupe]

Yeah, not what I meant. Those rods and pistons are pos.

[cstreu1026]

Yeah, not what I meant. Those rods and pistons are pos.

Gotcha!

[Jeff88coupe]

actually E85 resists detonation and burns slower, so it is easier on parts. I don't know about a lot more power as been stated above, I just know it's a great peace of mind knowing it's not going to detonate itself to death.

I've been reading alot about this with E85 lately since I wacked 3 autolight 3923's plug tips off on my first 150 shot pass with my new RHS 215 heads 2 months ago.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3938207862_093f67d9b9.jpg

I have found out that while the ethanol part of E85 if very resistant to detonation...the cheap ass gas part that is the other 15% isn't. I have since switched to NKG -8's or -9's (depending on how much i'm spraying)...no more plug issues. In my case it was dependant on the head combustion chamber alot I think. I ran the 3923's in my afr 185's with no issues on up to a 200 shot on E85. But with the RHS 215's the projected plug tip just acted like a glow plug.

Mike..here is a good thread on E85+nitrous and plugs
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181793&highlight=E85+spark+plugs

[05yellowgt]

But its not detonation that will implode a stock mod motor shortblock once you make beyond 400 RWHP...it's POS powdered metal rods and cast pistons that can't handle the pressure.
Detonation causes extreme spikes in cylinder pressure and at the worst possible time, while the piston is still on the up stroke. Though the stoke rods and pistons have a definite limit of how much power they can handle, preventing detonation will go a long way to keep a stock short block alive.

[cstreu1026]

Detonation causes extreme spikes in cylinder pressure and at the worst possible time, while the piston is still on the up stroke. Though the stoke rods and pistons have a definite limit of how much power they can handle, preventing detonation will go a long way to keep a stock short block alive.

Yeah but there are lots of cars with safe tunes than make over 400 to the tires on a stock mod motors that have catastrophic failures. It seems like once you cross that 400 rwhp mark with a stock shortblock its a matter of when not if it comes apart. The safest tune in the world can't make up for the cheap ass POS parts Fords used.

[05yellowgt]

I've been reading alot about this with E85 lately since I wacked 3 autolight 3923's plug tips off on my first 150 shot pass with my new RHS 215 heads 2 months ago.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3938207862_093f67d9b9.jpg

I have found out that while the ethanol part of E85 if very resistant to detonation...the cheap ass gas part that is the other 15% isn't. I have since switched to NKG -8's or -9's (depending on how much i'm spraying)...no more plug issues. In my case it was dependant on the head combustion chamber alot I think. I ran the 3923's in my afr 185's with no issues on up to a 200 shot on E85. But with the RHS 215's the projected plug tip just acted like a glow plug.

Mike..here is a good thread on E85+nitrous and plugs
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181793&highlight=E85+spark+plugs
The OP in that thread was shooting himself in the foot by running C16 AND E85. E85 is going to make more power than C16 once you optimize things to run on E85 alone.

What kind of AFR do you run with the nitrous Jeff?

[quik lx]

Yeah but there are lots of cars with safe tunes than make over 400 to the tires on a stock mod motors that have catastrophic failures. It seems like once you cross that 400 rwhp mark with a stock shortblock its a matter of when not if it comes apart. The safest tune in the world can't make up for the cheap ass POS parts Fords used.

It's the luck of the draw...there are guys with Kenne-Bell's making 440 at the tire for 2 years now, and then there's guys blowin em up with 350 at the tires.

However I cant fix it if it dont break!!!:D:D

[Jeff88coupe]

11.5-12:1 is what I shoot for.

Yes..I understand running leaded race gas with E85 can cause issues.

[Carl]

Since we are on this subject...

I am going to rebuild the 2.3 turbo when I get home. What options should I look at doing to it? i.e.- ECM, rings, etc...

Because I wouldn't mind running E-85 through it. Although I can only get it up in Boise right now.

[supercab78]

usafstang ( Carl ) I you haven't found this web site yet " turboford.net " check it out. It about turbo 2.3's only. There is a wealth of info on there. A few of them are useing E-85. This site made installing a 1988 turbo coupe drive line in my 84 stang go alot easier.

[Carl]

I have been on there a lot, although they aren't accepting new members...so I just search what I can.

[NXcoupe]

I'm doing the same thing in the future sometime. I have a 93 coupe, a turbo coupe engine, and already put the turbo coupe rear end and disk brakes in the coupe. It's a 5 speed car, and I have a guy that will take the stock turbo I have and rework it to make more power with a larger wheel, etc. I am planning on only running E85 in it, but will have a switch chip with a tune for gas just in case. I am going to play around with the factory 93 ECU and put a larger maf on it, and see how it works out. Simple build, nothing extreme, just a fun little car to drive around and enjoy.

[NXcoupe]

I've been reading alot about this with E85 lately since I wacked 3 autolight 3923's plug tips off on my first 150 shot pass with my new RHS 215 heads 2 months ago.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3938207862_093f67d9b9.jpg

I have found out that while the ethanol part of E85 if very resistant to detonation...the cheap ass gas part that is the other 15% isn't. I have since switched to NKG -8's or -9's (depending on how much i'm spraying)...no more plug issues. In my case it was dependant on the head combustion chamber alot I think. I ran the 3923's in my afr 185's with no issues on up to a 200 shot on E85. But with the RHS 215's the projected plug tip just acted like a glow plug.

Mike..here is a good thread on E85+nitrous and plugs
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181793&highlight=E85+spark+plugs

Jeff,
I can't comment on nitrous and E85 yet, because I am just starting to get into it. I can however speak with authority on a boosted application as I have driven one for 2 years now with not one problem related to the fuel or the power level. I use 3923 autolites and have only replaced the plugs once in two years, and that was just me being anal about the car. I should have just saved the money and continued running the same plugs. I will however comment on Nitrous' ability to oxidize rapidly along with the ethanol. Now, I am just speculating here, but it would seem to me that maybe you are running a little too lean or too much timing to get that kind of cylinder pressure and get the cylinder that hot. I have found that just one degree of timing can make the difference between a fantastic low et, and a huge hole in a piston. doesn't seem like much but nitrous is just that unforgiving in certain circumstances. Just throwing that out there. My car has never detonated once that I know of.

[Carl]

I'm doing the same thing in the future sometime. I have a 93 coupe, a turbo coupe engine, and already put the turbo coupe rear end and disk brakes in the coupe. It's a 5 speed car, and I have a guy that will take the stock turbo I have and rework it to make more power with a larger wheel, etc. I am planning on only running E85 in it, but will have a switch chip with a tune for gas just in case. I am going to play around with the factory 93 ECU and put a larger maf on it, and see how it works out. Simple build, nothing extreme, just a fun little car to drive around and enjoy.
What kind of chip are you going to run? I am thinking that I may need to get one with I plan on doing. I definitely want to get rid of that stupid VAM and make a blow-through MAF. I am still running the LA3 thats factory on the 88 TC's

[01cobra]

So has anyone actually switched their car over to the E85? Im not talking about pumps injectors and the like. I mean the tuning. I couldnt resist and switched my car over to E85 last weekend. I just threw fuel at the MAF till my trims looked good. Wideband confirmed the trims. I havent driven the car yet but it idles and revs. I would like to here from anyone who has done this.

[05yellowgt]

Mike Bell and myself have both switched our cars over to E85. Mike's car was already blown and I switched my 05 over when it still was a bolt on car. Mike did the tuning on both cars. What power level are you at and what size injectors and fuel pumps? Be sure to change you fuel filter after a fill up or two. The E85 will clean out any gunk that has gotten into your fuel tank over the years. Also I'd recommend getting on the dyno at some point to dial in the AFR and spark. E85 in on my car made the best power with a bit different AFR and spark than my 93 octane tune did.

[NXcoupe]

Yes, I have one car currently on E85 and this 2.3 turbo is going to be the next one. I am also building a car specifically to run on E85 with nitrous and all motor. I think there is a lot of potential with E85. It can take quite a bit of abuse without detonating. I drive my vert on E85 everyday it's not raining or wet out. I am out of the country now, but when I was home I drove the wheels off of it.

[NXcoupe]

What kind of chip are you going to run? I am thinking that I may need to get one with I plan on doing. I definitely want to get rid of that stupid VAM and make a blow-through MAF. I am still running the LA3 thats factory on the 88 TC's

I actually am going to experiment using the stock computer for the 4cyl and see if I can get it to work with a custom meter from ProM and use an sct chip on it. I am pretty sure it will work, but won't know for sure till I get it together. The 93's were factory mass air, so it is worth a shot.

[01cobra]

Mike Bell and myself have both switched our cars over to E85. Mike's car was already blown and I switched my 05 over when it still was a bolt on car. Mike did the tuning on both cars. What power level are you at and what size injectors and fuel pumps? Be sure to change you fuel filter after a fill up or two. The E85 will clean out any gunk that has gotten into your fuel tank over the years. Also I'd recommend getting on the dyno at some point to dial in the AFR and spark. E85 in on my car made the best power with a bit different AFR and spark than my 93 octane tune did.

I dont really know what power level Im at. If I had to guess I would say 450-500 @ the wheels (gasoline). Last time the car was on the dyno (probably 5 years ago) it made 606 with a Procharger @20lbs. Now it has a single Garrett GT4094R running on a .9 bar wastegate spring only, no boost controller yet. This nets about 10-12lbs boost depending on conditions. I used to run a Magnafuel EFI600 pump with sumped factory tank and converted to return style fuel system. All the noise and racket finally got to me and I put the car back to returnless. I think its got a couple focus pumps on a BAP right now. Has -8 line from tank to rails, but I have -10 and -12 left over from return system if I need it. I will probably find me a new/used tank over the winter (non sumped) and install a couple GT pumps. Not sure what I will do with the FPDM yet. Either mod it or get another and run two of them. Car has CPR rails and 60lb injectors. But Im not so concerned about the hardware. If I need bigger injectors or more pump or whatever I will get that stuff. I am looking for some insight on tuning. I have read all kinds of stuff on hardware selection. I want to get mine running with what I have first then I will upgrade pumps and injectors. I can put a lighter spring in the wastegate if I need to.
So far all I have done is empty the tank and dump 10 gallons E85 in fresh from Meijer. This is probably the winter blend this time of year so E70. Then I just added 15% more fuel in the MAF transfer function and started the car. Cold start from about 60 degrees F. Car started fine but wideband indicates 12:1 and short term trims are maxed out on the rich side. This seemed odd since I only added 15% and there was no residual gasoline left in the tank. So anyway I took 10% fuel out of the MAF this left a net addition of 5% more fuel to MAF. I start the car and its almost perfect. Short term trims of .99-1.04 and wideband indicates 14.5:1. I ran the engine up to about 250 MAF counts and AF ratio was good not perfect but at least in the ballpark. And this is pretty much where I left it. I also changed base fuel table to target 10.5:1 in open loop but I have not driven the car yet. I think I got the general idea on how to do this. Im not new to tuning but Im not sure what else to do. Did you guys have any issues with tip in on the E85 or other driveability issues you had to deal with. Im using factory Ford ECU with SCT chip. Does it appear I am on the right track? Is leaving the target stoich point at 14.64:1 and using the MAF to add additional fuel the way you guys tuned your cars? I could change the stoich point for the ECU although I have never tried it. :confused: