This truly is freaking me out...

[NaomiDstangLvr]

Now, I'm kinda what you would say a religious person, maybe not so much a "Bible Thumper" but this I think is all part of the End Times...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081024/financial_meltdown.html

[Waffles]

My grandparents were Assemblies of God ministers. My aunt wrote a book, a semi work of fiction, about growing up in that environment. The first line of her book is, "It had been a Second Coming sky all day..." She talks about how everything was a sign of the End Times and expecting it right around the corner.

Is there anything wrong with that? I think it depends on whether it causes you to live in fear, or to live foolishly. I've heard stories of family and friends selling their furniture etc in 1976 because of an end time prediction then. I think the idea is, always be prepared. Remember the story of the five wise, and five foolish virgins? The five foolish virgins were away getting prepared when they missed the boat. I think this essentially means, if you wait for the "signs" to get prepared, you're probably going to miss it anyway.

[Black92LX]

it's the natural course of life.
Economies have risen and fallen and risen again since the beginning of time.
No need for the chicken little business.

[Stangman]

"What don't kill ya makes ya more strong" -Metallica :cool1:

[Flaming87lx]

Get right with God, so you don't have to worry about it ;)

[Waffles]

Yeah, get right with God... I wonder if God would condone voting for a supporter of infanticide?

[TZ250]

"What don't kill ya makes ya more strong" -Metallica
Although I'm not Nietzsche fan, he said that first.

As for the end times, no one really knows. Jesus said that we would not know the hour, but we would know the season.

Black92LX is correct, markets rise and fall. That's just the way that they work.

[04 Venom]

it's the natural course of life.
Economies have risen and fallen and risen again since the beginning of time.
No need for the chicken little business.

He's right. This will be worse than any recession during the last 40 years, but it is the result of a global addiction to credit rather than the rotting of the economic foundations.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

All I know is when Jesus does return, I'm not going to be left behind. I know I'm not, what you would say, "perfect Christian" but I do believe I'll be leaving here and onto a wonderful place..

But this recession is definitely all part of it...

[Flaming87lx]

Yeah, get right with God... I wonder if God would condone voting for a supporter of infanticide?

People will be judged for there own actions, Obama does not support nor condoan abortion. He's wants a provision put into law that would allow an abortion only when rape and incest is involved and the republicans won't allow the law if that provision is in there. Now, god forbid your mother or your wife or daughter was raped or incest happened and they became pregnant, what would your feelings be? He wants to allow abortion only in those cases. He does not support it when it's convenient for "Suzy" and "Johnny" to not have a baby when they are not ready and they had irresponsible sex. So that is how I can support him. Watch the last debate and he explains it.

I personally cannot take this economy and gas prices anymore. I live in the highest unemployment rate county in IN. I believe things will change for the better with Obama. I can't stand more of the same, and I personnally think that McCain has a terrible, cockey attitude. His arrogance and talking down to people is just sickning.

[IWRBB]

A vote for Obabma is a vote for socialism. Socialism is why Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were created. The government should have NEVER been involved in the mortgage market. They created the problem. If the private banks had been the source for loans, there would not have been all the questionable loans. They aren't willing to back risky loans like our government did.

Barry wants to make the govenment bigger and take money from those who work hard and are successful, then turn around and give it to people who don't even work. Screw that. I missed all the partying my friends did after HS and went to engineering college instead. I drag my ass out of bed early every morning and never call in sick. I have earned what I have and I shouldn't have to give 10% of what I make to someone sitting on their ass all week watching TV.

There's nothing supernatural about any of this. I don't think God cares about home loans.

[mach_u]

People will be judged for there own actions, Obama does not support nor condoan abortion. He's wants a provision put into law that would allow an abortion only when rape and incest is involved and the republicans won't allow the law if that provision is in there. Now, god forbid your mother or your wife or daughter was raped or incest happened and they became pregnant, what would your feelings be? He wants to allow abortion only in those cases. He does not support it when it's convenient for "Suzy" and "Johnny" to not have a baby when they are not ready and they had irresponsible sex. So that is how I can support him. Watch the last debate and he explains it.

I personally cannot take this economy and gas prices anymore. I live in the highest unemployment rate county in IN. I believe things will change for the better with Obama. I can't stand more of the same, and I personnally think that McCain has a terrible, cockey attitude. His arrogance and talking down to people is just sickning.
:lol::lol::lol: You really have been drinking the koolaid, haven't you?
Obama is one of, if not the most liberal Senator this country has ever seen. I can sit by and let a lot of things slide but you have to be blind, ignorant or something else to actually suggest Barack Obama doesn't support abortion. Here is a website, simply with facts. I won't even get into the countless quotes, video clips, etc. that back all of this up because quite frankly you don't have to look far to find any of them. Just facts: http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

Secondly if you think for a second that the President alone has control over gas prices, you are extremely lost. Facts: First off we have had a democratically controlled house and senate for the last two years. Gas was $2.25-$2.35 when they went in. We saw the largest hike ever when they went into office in just the last two years alone, more so than even the first 6yrs of Bush and Republican control. Remember $3.95 just a few weeks back, over $4 for premium? Honestly, to say the President is to blame for gas prices is absolutely ridiculous and extremely naive. I agree Bush has done some stupid things since he has been in office but to blame the entire economy on his actions, especially considering a good chunk of what we have seen has been over the last two years, with a Democratic controlled house/senate, is absolutely ignorant. :rolleyes:

[Flaming87lx]

Tax breaks for people who make less than $250,000 per year and the the people who do make more, they get a 3% increase. Boo Hoo, 3% isn't crap, if you have $250,000 a year to spend. And by the way, the person who makes more than $250,000 does not work any harder than me making a 1/3 of that.

[02mingryGT]

:lol::lol::lol: You really have been drinking the koolaid, haven't you?
Obama is one of, if not the most liberal Senator this country has ever seen. I can sit by and let a lot of things slide but you have to be blind, ignorant or something else to actually suggest Barack Obama doesn't support abortion. Here is a website, simply with facts. I won't even get into the countless quotes, video clips, etc. that back all of this up because quite frankly you don't have to look far to find any of them. Just facts: http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

Secondly if you think for a second that the President alone has control over gas prices, you are extremely lost. Facts: First off we have had a democratically controlled house and senate for the last two years. Gas was $2.25-$2.35 when they went in. We saw the largest hike ever when they went into office in just the last two years alone, more so than even the first 6yrs of Bush and Republican control. Remember $3.95 just a few weeks back, over $4 for premium? Honestly, to say the President is to blame for gas prices is absolutely ridiculous and extremely naive. I agree Bush has done some stupid things since he has been in office but to blame the entire economy on his actions, especially considering a good chunk of what we have seen has been over the last two years, with a Democratic controlled house/senate, is absolutely ignorant. :rolleyes:


Well said!:bigthumb

[IWRBB]

Tax breaks for people who make less than $250,000 per year and the the people who do make more, they get a 3% increase. Boo Hoo, 3% isn't crap, if you have $250,000 a year to spend. And by the way, the person who makes more than $250,000 does not work any harder than me making a 1/3 of that.

I disagree.
First, he's not only giving tax breaks to those who work and make less than $250K, he's giving handouts to those who don't work at all, essentially redistrubiting wealth.

Second, I completely disagree that those who make a lot of money don't work harder. They worked MUCH harder to get where they are than those who make 35K a year. When they were 20 years old, up at 3am studying for a bussiness exam the next moring, the guy making 35K was out at the bar picking up chicks. Who was working hard and who wasn't? Let's see, what else? Salary vs. hourly. All the 35K guys are hourly, the get paid extra to work more than 8 hours. Salary? Not so much. You work as much as the company needs you to, and you get paid nothing extra. Who is working harder when one is getting paid time and a half and one is gettting paid nothing.

Don't come across saying that people who make good money don't work hard, that's jsut ignorant. My Dad grew up in a cold water flat in the West End of Cincinnati. His parents were hillbillies with a 8th grade education. He worked his ass off to get where he's at, I don't know anyone who has worked harder to get where they are at. He has more money than he knows what to do with now, but he EARNED it. There's no reason he should have to give it up to you.

[Flaming87lx]

:lol::lol::lol: You really have been drinking the koolaid, haven't you?
Obama is one of, if not the most liberal Senator this country has ever seen. I can sit by and let a lot of things slide but you have to be blind, ignorant or something else to actually suggest Barack Obama doesn't support abortion. Here is a website, simply with facts. I won't even get into the countless quotes, video clips, etc. that back all of this up because quite frankly you don't have to look far to find any of them. Just facts: http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

Secondly if you think for a second that the President alone has control over gas prices, you are extremely lost. Facts: First off we have had a democratically controlled house and senate for the last two years. Gas was $2.25-$2.35 when they went in. We saw the largest hike ever when they went into office in just the last two years alone, more so than even the first 6yrs of Bush and Republican control. Remember $3.95 just a few weeks back, over $4 for premium? Honestly, to say the President is to blame for gas prices is absolutely ridiculous and extremely naive. I agree Bush has done some stupid things since he has been in office but to blame the entire economy on his actions, especially considering a good chunk of what we have seen has been over the last two years, with a Democratic controlled house/senate, is absolutely ignorant. :rolleyes:

Looks like a double standard here to me, You say the president can't control everything and I agree, but your wanting to put full blame on any abortion that happens because Obama is president???? I'm a christian and I rode the coat tail of W. because of promises of putting God back in school, stronger abortion laws, ect and ya know what???? Nothing changed other than a screwed economy, living exspenses thru the roof, soldiers dead, going to war with the wrong country(we should have went to afganistan not Iraq) Unemployment thru the roof as well. I see nothing different in McCain and Bush. The economy is the issue with me and that is what my vote is about, not abortion!!!

[Flaming87lx]

I disagree.
First, he's not only giving tax breaks to those who work and make less than $250K, he's giving handouts to those who don't work at all, essentially redistrubiting wealth.

Second, I completely disagree that those who make a lot of money don't work harder. They worked MUCH harder to get where they are than those who make 35K a year. When they were 20 years old, up at 3am studying for a bussiness exam the next moring, the guy making 35K was out at the bar picking up chicks. Who was working hard and who wasn't? Let's see, what else? Salary vs. hourly. All the 35K guys are hourly, the get paid extra to work more than 8 hours. Salary? Not so much. You work as much as the company needs you to, and you get paid nothing extra. Who is working harder when one is getting paid time and a half and one is gettting paid nothing.

Don't come across saying that people who make good money don't work hard, that's jsut ignorant. My Dad grew up in a cold water flat in the West End of Cincinnati. His parents were hillbillies with a 8th grade education. He worked his ass off to get where he's at, I don't know anyone who has worked harder to get where they are at. He has more money than he knows what to do with now, but he EARNED it. There's no reason he should have to give it up to you.

I put they work no harder, learn to read!!!!! I didn't put they don't work as hard!!!!! Your ignorant if that is what you read. You people twist so much crap around to try to get your point accross... I have an education, I studied for tests, I work 53-58 hours per week and I don't make $250,000. And the 3% increase is not given to me or any of the 95% of americans that don't make $250,000 a year or more. Taxes pays for a multitude of things to make the world go around, not just welfare. Your ignorant if you think that 3% is for people that sit on there butt and do nothing, that rediculous!!!!

[IWRBB]

It's not just the 3%. Obama would also remove the cap on SS taxes. They only tax the first $102,000 in income now. So anyone who makes over $250,000 will pay an additional 40% tax on the remaining $148,000+. That's a total federal tax rate of over 56%. Then there's the state and city taxes. That's nearly a 65% final tax rate for those over $250,000. That would put our top tax rates above Sweden and Finland, both Socialist societies. Do you really think our government should take a full 2/3's of what somebody makes?

I don't make $250,000 either, by any means. But, they "sit on their butt" comment shows what you truly think, that people making good money aren't working hard. I still disagree completely.

[mustangboy]

You miss the whole point of the argument. Why should those who make more pay more. It is that simple. Why don't people get that.

[04 Venom]

Secondly if you think for a second that the President alone has control over gas prices, you are extremely lost. Facts: First off we have had a democratically controlled house and senate for the last two years. Gas was $2.25-$2.35 when they went in. We saw the largest hike ever when they went into office in just the last two years alone, more so than even the first 6yrs of Bush and Republican control.

Come on AJ, not only was it beyond the control of Bush, but the same thing would have happened regardless of who controlled Congress the past two years. You know better.

[Flaming87lx]

Tell me why they should get tax breaks, that what McCain wants to do. Please tell me how that make sense???

[Flaming87lx]

It's not just the 3%. Obama would also remove the cap on SS taxes. They only tax the first $102,000 in income now. So anyone who makes over $250,000 will pay an additional 40% tax on the remaining $148,000+. That's a total federal tax rate of over 56%. Then there's the state and city taxes. That's nearly a 65% final tax rate for those over $250,000. That would put our top tax rates above Sweden and Finland, both Socialist societies. Do you really think our government should take a full 2/3's of what somebody makes?

I don't make $250,000 either, by any means. But, they "sit on their butt" comment shows what you truly think, that people making good money aren't working hard. I still disagree completely.

Where do you get your facts from???? please post it!!!!! I'm not interested in your interpretations, especially after the "sit on your butt" comment. Please tell me how you came to that conclusion also.

[IWRBB]

Because our government is out of control. They are too big, and take too much of the money that people earn. Taking more of their money and giving it to the government is the worse thing we could do. Giving less of it to the governement is the best thing we can do.

The "rich" buy thing like buses, planes, boats. If they have no disposable income because the government takes it all, they don't buy anything. If they have more dispoable income from a tax cut, they buy more.

It boils down to the Deomcratic platform of tax and spend vs. the Republican platform of trickle down economics.

[IWRBB]

Where do you get your facts from???? please post it!!!!!

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/6/13/obama-plans-a-massive-hike-in-social-security-taxes.html

A later article, looks like those making more than $97,000 are in the targets now.
http://abcnews.go.com/politics/Story?id=3638710&page=1

Here's a chart..
http://www.heritage.org/research/Taxes/images/wm1973_chart1.gif

[mach_u]

Come on AJ, not only was it beyond the control of Bush, but the same thing would have happened regardless of who controlled Congress the past two years. You know better.
I won't argue that with you but it seems so many on the left are quick to blame Republicans for high gas prices. Every week or two I see a bumper sticker that says when Bush went into office gas was: $1.XX or whatever. Flaming87lx was complaining about gas being high and insinuating the Bush administration having something to do with it. I was simply making a case for the opposite. ;)

[Flaming87lx]

It's not just the 3%. Obama would also remove the cap on SS taxes. They only tax the first $102,000 in income now. So anyone who makes over $250,000 will pay an additional 40% tax on the remaining $148,000+. That's a total federal tax rate of over 56%. Then there's the state and city taxes. That's nearly a 65% final tax rate for those over $250,000. That would put our top tax rates above Sweden and Finland, both Socialist societies. Do you really think our government should take a full 2/3's of what somebody makes?

I don't make $250,000 either, by any means. But, they "sit on their butt" comment shows what you truly think, that people making good money aren't working hard. I still disagree completely.

Where do you get your facts from? please post it!!! You are dillusional! 56%??? put the reefer down and step away

[Flaming87lx]

Among Obama's other proposals: raising the tax on capital gains and qualified dividends. However, Obama has raised the possibility of deferring some of his tax hikes on the wealthy given the ailing economy.

To help others, Obama has offered a series of tax breaks, including eliminating the income tax for senior citizens who make less than $50,000 a year and giving a $1,000 income tax credit for families with income of between $8,000 and $75,000; individuals would receive half that amount. Obama also proposes a universal mortgage credit that would allow people who don't itemize their taxes to be eligible for a 10 percent tax credit of their mortgage interest up to $800.

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html ?CMP=KNC-360I-YAHOO-BULL&HBX_OU=51&HBX_PK=obama_tax_plan

What you have posted is mere ideas, none are planned proposals in his tax plan

[04 Venom]

I won't argue that with you but it seems so many on the left are quick to blame Republicans for high gas prices. Every week or two I see a bumper sticker that says when Bush went into office gas was: $1.XX or whatever. Flaming87lx was complaining about gas being high and insinuating the Bush administration having something to do with it. I was simply making a case for the opposite. ;)

It is the season for blame.

[Flaming87lx]

I'm out, not by defeat, but these threads go no where, and I know this, but I keep falling prey to them.

I don't hate no one on here, it's life, we all will never agree at once. God help all of us, we need you desperately right now!!!

[mustangboy]

I'm going to overly simply this. Barack wants to give more to the poor which in turn acts as an incentive to not work and tax the rich more which gives them the incentive to not work as hard. That is pretty damn good thinking if you ask me.

[Rick93coupe]

I'm going to overly simply this. Barack wants to give more to the poor which in turn acts as an incentive to not work and tax the rich more which gives them the incentive to not work as hard. That is pretty damn good thinking if you ask me.

:lol:
Damn, who's gonna do all the work then?

I like the radio ads that say McCain is giving tax incentives to corporations that send their work over seas. The tax incentives are to keep the corporations from going overseas. :tard:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/taxes.htm

[Waffles]

People will be judged for there own actions, Obama does not support nor condoan abortion. He's wants a provision put into law that would allow an abortion only when rape and incest is involved and the republicans won't allow the law if that provision is in there. Now, god forbid your mother or your wife or daughter was raped or incest happened and they became pregnant, what would your feelings be? He wants to allow abortion only in those cases. He does not support it when it's convenient for "Suzy" and "Johnny" to not have a baby when they are not ready and they had irresponsible sex. So that is how I can support him. Watch the last debate and he explains it.


Put down the kool aid and do some research. This is absolutely not true. I think I even gave you a link to the video in your other thread. Obama killed the "born alive" legislation in Illinois while it was still in committee.

[Waffles]

Come on AJ, not only was it beyond the control of Bush, but the same thing would have happened regardless of who controlled Congress the past two years. You know better.
I think that's what he was saying, although I'm sure you still won't understand. He's pointing out that it's as silly to blame Bush as it is to blame the democratic congress, even with so-called evidence which is highly circumstancial.


Tell me why they should get tax breaks, that what McCain wants to do. Please tell me how that make sense???

First off, it's not a tax break because they'll still pay the vast majority of taxes. It's a tax rate break. There are quite a few people, and my girlfriend is one of them, who pay NO TAXES but still get a "refund" check. She got over $3000 back last year, after only paying in about $1200. Now THAT is a tax break.

Think of "tax cuts for the wealthy" kinda like a volume discount. I make less now than I'm sure a lot of you do. I used to make a lot more than now. When I did, I was paying more out of each check than many of my friends' paychecks were for after taxes. Also, we also have to realize that many of these tax cuts for the wealthy are not just for the wealthy. The capital gains cut was a break to anyone who would invest... thus stimulating investment. There are 1000 ways this makes sense. People who don't understand it are just too bitter toward successful people to look at it fairly.

[Flaming87lx]

Hardcore, you have proven yourself to be a liar and a idiot, I'm done with you.