McCain is about to make another big mistake

[04 Venom]

The first was picking Palin (hasn't worked with independents and undecided voters) and the second was "suspending" his campaign to deal with the financial bailout. The next mistake will be a blizzard of negative ads. Most of them will be paid by Republican PACs so he isn't directly linked. The ads will feature the idiot Reverend Wright and Obama's putative association with William Ayres.

Unfortunately, negative campaigning usually works (the infamous Willie Horton ad Bush's father used in 1988 and more recently the Swift Boat ads used by George the Conqueror in 2004). This time it will backfire for two reasons. It will be interpreted as a desperation move by McCain and he is already suffering from an image of being erratic during the past several weeks. The second reason it will backfire is the fact that the voters are so disgusted by "Washington" and "Wall Street", coupled with a generalized fear of the economy, that they are looking for signs of any positive leadership. Going negative will not work in this environment.

Whether you are for or against Obama, he has run a very smart campaign. As I said last week, this election is already over, barring a "game changer" event for or against one of the candidates. The electoral math makes it nearly impossible for McCain to win and the present trends suggest it won't even be close.

[ADaughen]

You mean with something like this?


October 4th, 2008 2:44 PM Eastern
Palin Hits Obama on Ayers
by Fin Gomez
ENGLEWOOD, CO-

At a fundraiser, here in this battle ground state, that concluded just minutes ago, Gov. Sarah Palin “takes of the gloves” and hits Senator Obama on his past relation with 60’s militant Bill Ayers.

“Our opponent though is someone who sees America it seems as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country. Americans need to know this.Talk about taking the gloves off, I too being that outsider and only being a part of this for 5 weeks now, I think ok we gotta get the word out.This is in fairness to the electorate we gotta start telling people what the other side represents.”


I don't trust any of those Chicago Politicos. F* 'em all.


ETA:
F* McCain for voting for that bailout. F* all of them, too.

[04 Venom]

You mean with something like this?






yeah.

[Mustard]

well, in about 31 days this will be over and we will see who wins.

[ADaughen]

Uh-oh...

Now the AP is calling her comments towards Obama racist. :/

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1



Somebody's mama didn't tell him not to hang out with the wrong crowd...

[04 Venom]

Uh-oh...

Now the AP is calling her comments towards Obama racist. :/

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1



Somebody's mama didn't tell him not to hang out with the wrong crowd...

I don't think it's racist, but it is unbelievably stupid. We are witnessing the implosion of McCain's campaign.

[Waffles]

The media gets more and more rediculous by the minute. I kept looking for the comment that was constued as racist and then suddenly the video ended.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I think there SHOULD be some racist remarks thrown at Obama....see how he reacts to it since he's sure to face it from somebody at some point.

Then again, that would just make him look like a victim so nevermind.

[Rich]

What is wrong with questioning his relationship with an ADMITTED terrorist? Our media should be ashamed of itself for not doing this already!

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

What is wrong with questioning his relationship with an ADMITTED terrorist? Our media should be ashamed of itself for not doing this already!


Well they didn't bother to ask about Bush's relationship with Bin Laden so why ask now?

[Rich]

So what is Bush's relationship with Bin Laden?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I may have my facts mixed up with that...wasn't it Bush Sr?

[Rich]

Bush Sr and the US considered the Saudi Royal family "allies". Bin Laden was fairly high up in the Saudi scheme. Bin laden wanted the Saudis to "start" and trainb their own army to stop Saddam Hussein back in the early 90's. The Saudis were concerned that Hussein would control too much of the oil market.

When the Saudis put pressure on the US to help out in the early 90's, Bin Laden became furious with the Saudi royal family. After Desert Strom, the US left 20,000 troops or so in Saudi and that is when Bin Laden basically disowned the Saudis and left the country.

As far as the George W.

I think Bin Laden's brother was an investor in one of Bush's former oil companies.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

So basically being buddies with a terrorist or not being buddies with a terrorist is really just a matter of dates :lol:

[04 Venom]

What is wrong with questioning his relationship with an ADMITTED terrorist? Our media should be ashamed of itself for not doing this already!

I think the point is there is no relationship. George W. was a close friend of Ken Lay (of Enron fame); does that make him a embezzler? Of course not.

John McCain failed to disclose gifts from a convicted felon and had to amend his returns after the IRS questioned it in the late 1980s. He was formally censured by the Senate for showing "poor judgment" for attempting to intercede on behalf of the same individual along with 5 other US Senators when a federal probe was underway. The individual in question was Charles Keating and the taxpayers picked up the tab for $3 billion to bail out his failed savings in loan.

To be fair, that is more troubling than serving on two non-profit committees with Ayres, particularly after the FBI declined to prosecute Ayres in the 1970s for his membership in the Weather Underground in the 1960s.

As I said at the start of this threat, this is a sign of desperation on the part of McCain.

[Waffles]

I think there SHOULD be some racist remarks thrown at Obama....see how he reacts to it since he's sure to face it from somebody at some point.

Then again, that would just make him look like a victim so nevermind.

Well, I'm sure he's had to put up with some degree of racism in his life already. I doubt he let's it effect him. What I wonder is, about his own racism. That doesn't seem to bother about half of America.


Bush Sr and the US considered the Saudi Royal family "allies". Bin Laden was fairly high up in the Saudi scheme. Bin laden wanted the Saudis to "start" and trainb their own army to stop Saddam Hussein back in the early 90's. The Saudis were concerned that Hussein would control too much of the oil market.

When the Saudis put pressure on the US to help out in the early 90's, Bin Laden became furious with the Saudi royal family. After Desert Strom, the US left 20,000 troops or so in Saudi and that is when Bin Laden basically disowned the Saudis and left the country.

As far as the George W.

I think Bin Laden's brother was an investor in one of Bush's former oil companies.

Bin Ladin has like 862 brothers and sisters or something silly like that and most of them have no dealings with him at all. Apparently most (if not all) of them are normal, non-radical business people. So, I guess being associated with his brother is guilt by association?


So basically being buddies with a terrorist or not being buddies with a terrorist is really just a matter of dates :lol:

Who are you saying was buddies with a terrorist? It doesn't look to me like there was even an accusation of that in previous posts for your response to even make sense. Maybe I misunderstood?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Who are you saying was buddies with a terrorist? It doesn't look to me like there was even an accusation of that in previous posts for your response to even make sense. Maybe I misunderstood?

The comment about Bush Sr. and the Saudi's being allies, and Bin Laden later becoming a complete dick. I wasn't commenting about Obama Bin Laden (sorry..that was too easy..lol)

[Waffles]

Salem and George W Bush were founders of the Arbusto Energy oil company in the 70's. It also looks like that was Osama's uncle, I think. Never known a guy with a rotten nephew?

[Waffles]

The comment about Bush Sr. and the Saudi's being allies, and Bin Laden later becoming a complete dick. I wasn't commenting about Obama Bin Laden (sorry..that was too easy..lol)

So, then you were saying that the Saudis are terrorists and Bush was friends with them? Or that the Saudis were buddies with Osmam, who is a terrorist?

Incidently, simply being a murderer, or a theif, or a terrorist is a matter of dates... You're not a murderer until you murder, etc.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

So, then you were saying that the Saudis are terrorists and Bush was friends with them? Or that the Saudis were buddies with Osmam, who is a terrorist?

Incidently, simply being a murderer, or a theif, or a terrorist is a matter of dates... You're not a murderer until you murder, etc.

I think you're reading too much into it man...you're debating something that i didn't have all the facts on anyways..it was meant as a joke sort of thing not a debate.

[Rich]

To be fair, that is more troubling than serving on two non-profit committees with Ayres, particularly after the FBI declined to prosecute Ayres in the 1970s for his membership in the Weather Underground in the 1960s

He was not prosecuted because of COINTELPRO, which was a secret and sometimes illegal operation by the FBI, it had nothing to do with the fact of his guilt. Ayers admitted to the bombings then and still publicly states that he wished he had done more.

"Membership" is a nice word to use...he was the co-FOUNDER of a militant group that bombed a New York City Police Station, The Pentagon, and The US Capitol.


This guy is no different than Timothy MCVeigh or Bin Laden...he is a terrorist!

He is a self proclaimed "small C" communist. He is also a personal and political friend of Obama.

[Waffles]

I think you're reading too much into it man...you're debating something that i didn't have all the facts on anyways..it was meant as a joke sort of thing not a debate.

Nah, I wasn't reading anything into it, but it's all text and it's hard to tell how someone meant something. That's why I was asking what you meant.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Honestly man as far as politics go i don't know jack crap. It interests me but i'm just uneducated. Lately it all just depresses me so i try to lighten the mood with jokes.

[Waffles]

It's all good. It all starts with an interest and that results in learning. Pretty soon, you know jack crap and a lot more :lol: When people do research, usually the way someone has been brought up etc help interpret the information they find.

I had a pretty broad range of experiences growing up. My father owned his own business and I never knew him to work for a wage. We had some very good years and we had some very scary years. We never had a dime that we didn't create for ourselves. Sometimes we created more dimes than others. We didn't take or give handouts, but my father always had a job for family members and friends to work. Sometimes when someone had it really rough, he'd move them into a spare room and give them a job.

I think it was because of those experiences that made me the fiscal conservative I am today. I don't ask anything from anyone, and I expect everyone to work just as I do and my family always has. I've been in financial trouble before, and the only people I've ever turned to has been my family even though they weren't always in a position to help. Still today, I live the same way. It scares me to death for my livelyhood, and for my father's, to think that Obama will likely be elected.

I guess the point is, that everyone takes something away a little different.

Disclosure : I took about 5 calls during this post, if it doesn't make sense, that's why :lol:

[mach_u]

It's all good. It all starts with an interest and that results in learning. Pretty soon, you know jack crap and a lot more :lol: When people do research, usually the way someone has been brought up etc help interpret the information they find.

I had a pretty broad range of experiences growing up. My father owned his own business and I never knew him to work for a wage. We had some very good years and we had some very scary years. We never had a dime that we didn't create for ourselves. Sometimes we created more dimes than others. We didn't take or give handouts, but my father always had a job for family members and friends to work. Sometimes when someone had it really rough, he'd move them into a spare room and give them a job.

I think it was because of those experiences that made me the fiscal conservative I am today. I don't ask anything from anyone, and I expect everyone to work just as I do and my family always has. I've been in financial trouble before, and the only people I've ever turned to has been my family even though they weren't always in a position to help. Still today, I live the same way. It scares me to death for my livelyhood, and for my father's, to think that Obama will likely be elected.

I guess the point is, that everyone takes something away a little different.

Disclosure : I took about 5 calls during this post, if it doesn't make sense, that's why :lol:
Makes great sense to me. My old man has been in business for himself for 20yrs. The majority of that time he barely made a living. We didn't have extras, didn't take a bunch of vacations, things were tight and we knew it. He never took a handout, worked hard to provide and today has a moderate success but it's still a struggle. It has made me fiscally conservative personally as well as with my political choices. He has given a lot of himself both financially and with his time, to those who needed both. We had people stay with us that needed a place, he sold our second car to bail a buddy out of a big financial mess, and so many other things I can't forget. I also grew up in a strong Christian home and I guess that adds to my morally conservative compass as well. I believe true generosity comes from the heart, not from a government passing out handouts to those who don't deserve them. Dependence on government in the downfall of a society. ;)

[Waffles]

My cousin, right before he died, told me how lucky I was to have such an example as my father growing up. We did have some good years, but the bad years were very bad. We lost everything in 1989. We had a company bankrupt on us for $175k and it really put the hurt to us. In turn, our business ended up having to file bankruptcy. My uncle worked for us then, and of course lost his job. We had a rough way to go for a while, but my father rebuilt the company and again it is successful today. His father, on the other hand, laid down and gave up. He lost nothing but his job and a weeks pay when the company went under. He's lived off the government ever since (we're talking 20 years now). All of his kids are staunch Democrats and always talking about how companies are evil and always riding on the backs of the poor. They all need government to save them. Everything, is always someone else's fault.

It's ridiculous.

[02mingryGT]

I don't think the campaign is being negative when they are pointing out FACTS about Obama's personal affiliations. Same with his preacher Wright. I found it amusing that he didn't announce publicly he disagreed with Wright's sermons until it became apparent he needed to do so to save face. The media for the most part happily disregarded the fact that he stayed a member of the church for many years while this was going on. Oprah also a member of the same church, but left because of Wright's sermons.

I have yet to give up on this race since I disregard polls to begin with. The bigger problem is Congress. If you want to change America change Congress. If after this week everyone isn't convinced that no matter the political affiliation Congress is in the pocket of special interest I don't know what will.

[04 Venom]

I don't think the campaign is being negative when they are pointing out FACTS about Obama's personal affiliations. Same with his preacher Wright. I found it amusing that he didn't announce publicly he disagreed with Wright's sermons until it became apparent he needed to do so to save face. The media for the most part happily disregarded the fact that he stayed a member of the church for many years while this was going on. Oprah also a member of the same church, but left because of Wright's sermons.



The only point I am trying to make in this regard is that McCain is about to make another serious tactical error in his campaign by running the attack ads. With voter discontent at an extremely high level, he risks further diluting his "maverick" image and being viewed as just another politician.

[Rich]

The only point I am trying to make in this regard is that McCain is about to make another serious tactical error in his campaign by running the attack ads. With voter discontent at an extremely high level, he risks further diluting his "maverick" image and being viewed as just another politician.

Obama released his mud slinging attack ads today...

[04 Venom]

Obama released his mud slinging attack ads today...

Yeah I heard. Equally dumb.

[beefcake]

it just never ends