Mom who left 2 year old in car...

[NaomiDstangLvr]

Will be on Oprah Wednesday, not sure if anyone remembers this idiot last year leaving her little girl in the car when she went to work at the school.

http://wkrq.com/index.php?sid=5639

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Is she gonna be there with the local woman who did the same and got off? How about the one who put her baby in the microwave? Lets just have a baby killing free for all.

[rogers]

so she leaves the kid in the car and get's to be on oprah someone should smack the both of them. oprah is another waste :flipoff:

[plattner01]

so she leaves the kid in the car and get's to be on oprah someone should smack the both of them. oprah is another waste :flipoff:

agree :bigthumb both a waste

[Rick93coupe]

Phuck her, I couldn't care less what she has to say about any subject. Her and the lady in Florida both need a bullet.

[smytty]

Yep stick them both in a big ass oven and let them cook to death like the children did

[REDHOTGTGIRL]

Oprah is doing it for ratings, pure and simple.

[Holly]

I have it set to tape. I want to hear what she has to say.

[Scarlet03]

it just kills me that not 1 but 2 ladies have left their childeren in vehicles and both have gotten away with it because their is no law against it? I think that after the first I would make a law for it....

[Holly]

A law against forgetting? That's the problem, they didn't maliciously kill their children, like say.... Susan Smith, who put her kids in the car, ran it into a lake and let them drown, and then told everybody they were kidnapped.

I have VERY mixed feelings about the whole thing. I am not taking up for the stupid ass mothers at all, but I don't think they meant to do what they did. Everybody says... "how could they forget their kids" and "I would never do anything like that". You don't know what you are capable of doing, plain and simple. Shit happens, bad shit happens, and sometimes we have no control over it.

But no matter how we look at it, it's not up to us to condone them. They are the ones that have to live with what they did, for the rest of their lives. I mean seriously, could you live with yourself after doing something like that? I'm sure you could, but your life will never, EVER, be the same. It's all so sad.

Okay, I'm done. :(

[Scarlet03]

All i'm saying is that if you are so busy that you forget your child in the car for hours and untill their dead maybe you could use sometime in jail to think about it....... They are too little to get up and get out they depend on their parents!

[pegasus]

Is she gonna be there with the local woman who did the same and got off? How about the one who put her baby in the microwave? Lets just have a baby killing free for all.

try the abortion clinic

[Rick93coupe]

Holly, you don't just forget your kids in a car. You can forget to get the pop out of the trunk, you can forget the water softner salt, you can forget your cell phone, but you don't forget what is supposed to be the most important thing you have in your life. There's no fucking excuse.

[rogers]

All i'm saying is that if you are so busy that you forget your child in the car for hours and untill their dead maybe you could use sometime in jail to think about it....... They are too little to get up and get out they depend on their parents!

or how about stop being so comsumed by yourself and start thinking of your children i won't touch the abortion thing i am totally pro choice- choose to use protection, choose to use birth control, or choose to not have sex at all! we have a local radio station that has a what you doing at the courthouse every morning at 10 til 8am i listen to it as i take my children to school and some mother said she was there for smoking pot so she could deal with her children if i were the judge i would take them from her and make her earn them back doing drugs to deal with your own child is as bad a leaving them in a hot ass car. yeah things happen you can't control and you may have to live yourself after all is said and done but... forgetting your child in hot car isn't like misplacing your car keys or an important date jmo!

['92Stang]

:agree:.....There's not a minute in a day, where i'm ot thinking about Abby. Couldn't imagine forgetting about her for an entire work day ,especially working at a school.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

try the abortion clinic


That's a whole other can of worms right there.


In a way i can understand how a hectic life could lead to forgetting about something, just not your child. In another way i can feel sorry for these women, but at the same time i see it as the ultimate failure of parenting. Part of me says that the loss of their child is punishment enough, but then the other part of me says she needs executed for forgetting the last thing she should ever have forgotten about.

People leave their keys in their car...that's typical. You don't leave a baby in the car.

Now, the lady who put her baby in the microwave...i can't believe she's still walking and breathing air. I couldn't imagine what i would do if i had 5 minutes alone with her.

[rogers]

:agree:.....There's not a minute in a day, where i'm ot thinking about Abby. Couldn't imagine forgetting about her for an entire work day ,especially working at a school.

thank you i think about my children all the time too somedays they or rather my son can get to be a bit much but he's my boy and i love him my daughter is in that pre teen stage now and i can't believe how fast they grow up.

as far as the failure of parenting goes it extends far beyond just the children, how about the breakdown of adults in general. seems alot of people tend to forget their children quite often... ever tried coaching a little league team, or kids soccer. after those experinces i guess i'm not so shocked at how some people could just forget their child. thats the sad part
here's to bad parenting :dummy::dummy::dummy::HYF::HYF::HYF::flipoff:

[Greg Seibert]

so she leaves the kid in the car and get's to be on oprah someone should smack the both of them. oprah is another waste :flipoff:

And remember, Oproar said "OJ didn't do it", and, "ya know, we sistas don't be want'n our man mess'n wit no white women", (she used ebonics) and the LA riots were justified.
You are going to hear all about how working mothers need more day care that Bush took away, and Obammies gonna get back.
The only thing better would be if that mother was black or gay, then she would have her own show.

[Holly]

Holly, you don't just forget your kids in a car.


So you think both of those ladies intentionally left their baby girls in the car to die?

Believe me - I am not condoning what they did, AT ALL. It makes me sick to even think about how those children suffered while they were dying.

But I don't think they did it on purpose, I just don't. I DO think they are going to live in eternal hell for what they did.

[KB1]

My son was at football practice that day & saw the coroner remove the body, he has a neice the same age! I don't care how busy or like others have said you just do not forget, or at least no the whole fuggin day! I have two kids that did & played everything at different times & not once can I remember not knowing where they were! The part that bothers me is that she is become a celebrity of sorts & getting paid to speak on the subject, that's just wrong. A message should have been sent to her via the court system, the courts failed that baby this time!

KB

[ewalt]

I don't think they intended to leave the kids in the car. It's still unforgivable and it's a problem that breeds in society. We don't want to force anyone to act responsibly. It's crazy really. She should be in jail, for gross negligence in the death of a human being. Once it gets out she got to goto jail for 10 years, others might be less damn forgetful.

Look at ALL the neglectful parents out there, and you can see this is a huge problem. People do not take being a parent as serious as they should. Sorry, but if this lady did, her child would have never been left in that car, she would have never "forgotten" about one the of most important responsibilities of her life.

Forgetting your own kids...... umm, that makes you a useless fuckup, who was clearly neglectful of your responsibilities and therefore you deserve to be punished.

Oh well, a baby is dead, someone who relied on their parents, and now mommy is on oprah. Shameful.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

try the abortion clinic

I second that! And their legal!

[MrsAPE]

Forgetting your own kids...... umm, that makes you a useless fuckup, who was clearly neglectful of your responsibilities and therefore you deserve to be punished.

Oh well, a baby is dead, someone who relied on their parents, and now mommy is on oprah. Shameful.

agreed! truly shameful.

[VuNiT3]

It really scares me to think that someone whose everyday job is to deal with kids, forgot her own. Yikes. We as Americans get way too many get out of jail free cards if you ask me. People know that all they are gonna get these days is a slap on the wrist, and thats that. Make an example out of that bitch:flipoff:

[rogers]

Yep stick them both in a big ass oven and let them cook to death like the children did

:agree:

the punishment should fit the crime. and with our fugged up system people get off on techincalities too often. OMG i could get started on alot of topics here that would all relate to this simple principle... we are not taking responabilites for our own actions as americans people abuse the system and if they don't get off someone complains if our elected would look out for the good of the people and uphold what is right we wouldn't have gas problems, welfare problems, tax problems, crime problems, do i need to go on

[mustang8998]

So you think both of those ladies intentionally left their baby girls in the car to die?

Believe me - I am not condoning what they did, AT ALL. It makes me sick to even think about how those children suffered while they were dying.

But I don't think they did it on purpose, I just don't. I DO think they are going to live in eternal hell for what they did.

I agree with Holly. It was not intentional.

Neither of the two local women, broke any law, so how do you punish them?

I will say, that there absolutely NEEDS to be a law, about things like this.

Having said that, these women will get theirs, come judgment day.

[pegasus]

you know that dinger that lets you know when you leave your lights on, why not have have that bult into a car seat ? it would not add much to the cost of the seat using the same swich as the cut off swich thats in side the lawn mower

[billy69mach]

how did she get away with it without going to jail $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ SHE SHOULD HAVE HUNG FROM A TREE:mad:

[1992MustangDW]

I just finished watching oprah. I just dont understand how you can forget, she can stop and get donuts, open the back hatch and go into school and forget your kid, that lady has to feel really shitty killing her daughter. I hope she thinks about it every day.


There is no excuse for it, and it kinda seemed like thats all they had on there.

[untamed]

I agree with Holly. It was not intentional.

Neither of the two local women, broke any law, so how do you punish them?

I will say, that there absolutely NEEDS to be a law, about things like this.

Having said that, these women will get theirs, come judgment day.

Well put!!!!

[95redstang]

A law against forgetting? That's the problem, they didn't maliciously kill their children, like say.... Susan Smith, who put her kids in the car, ran it into a lake and let them drown, and then told everybody they were kidnapped.

I have VERY mixed feelings about the whole thing. I am not taking up for the stupid ass mothers at all, but I don't think they meant to do what they did. Everybody says... "how could they forget their kids" and "I would never do anything like that". You don't know what you are capable of doing, plain and simple. Shit happens, bad shit happens, and sometimes we have no control over it.

But no matter how we look at it, it's not up to us to condone them. They are the ones that have to live with what they did, for the rest of their lives. I mean seriously, could you live with yourself after doing something like that? I'm sure you could, but your life will never, EVER, be the same. It's all so sad.

Okay, I'm done. :(

I agree totally. The one thing that I can't understand is how she forgot about the child but remembered the doughnunts. THey have her on surveilance opening the hatch on her suv grabbing the doughnuts , you can clearly see that there was a car seat. We have 3 girls and almost every place we go they are with us. My wife is a stay at home mom and I work. She has the girls about 90% of the time. When I am off I let her go shop or go hang with her friends to give her a break. We have been out 1 time in the past 1.5 years just me and her. The entire night we were checking and double checking where the girls were. We are an extremey busy family, between my work, the girls have cheerleading, soccer, basketball,softball, and dance. No matter what we are doing we know exactly where the girls are. Your kids are more important than anything you have going on. At least they are in my case.

[ponymom05]

It's weird how if you leave your child in a car, police are called , etc., but they survive you are charged with child endangering. There should be some type of law to go beyond that one in the cases where the child dies.

I watched the show. It seemed that it was a lot of excuses. Overwhelmed? She had just started her morning. How overwhelmed can you be? The hardest I find to believe is that she spoke of her daughter that day to coworkers but nothing clicked in her head. I find that unreal. Putting your job, or anything else, in front of your children to me is just selfish. Just my .02 as a mother who raised 3.

[95redstang]

It's weird how if you leave your child in a car, police are called , etc., but they survive you are charged with child endangering. There should be some type of law to go beyond that one in the cases where the child dies.

I watched the show. It seemed that it was a lot of excuses. Overwhelmed? She had just started her morning. How overwhelmed can you be? The hardest I find to believe is that she spoke of her daughter that day to coworkers but nothing clicked in her head. I find that unreal. Putting your job, or anything else, in front of your children to me is just selfish. Just my .02 as a mother who raised 3.

:agree: I put my 3 daughters before anything and everything..I will snap sombody's neck over my girls.

[mustang8998]

It's weird how if you leave your child in a car, police are called , etc., but they survive you are charged with child endangering. There should be some type of law to go beyond that one in the cases where the child dies.

It's not weird, if it is INTENTIONALLY done! Like someone running in the store, getting their dry cleaning, etc. IF you do it intentionally, then I see the child endangering. It is my belief, that it was accidental, in these cases.

However, as I stated before, neither of these women broke any law, currently on the books.

I do think that we will see a law soon, to deal with this problem. I surely hope so.

[MrsAPE]

I do think that we will see a law soon, to deal with this problem. I surely hope so.

agreed. being a mother myself I just don't see how you could forget your child in the car. Not for 8 hours. I've forgotten at times that it's my turn to do pick up and been late but not more than 10 minutes. I just don't see how you could. Sadly it's happening way to much. Agree there needs to be a law.

[REDHOTGTGIRL]

I'm pretty sure the officials in Clermont County have started the process to get some type of law for this in Ohio. Not sure what exactly it is or how long it takes, but I heard that had started something.

[Steves LX]

Ya know I beleive there is a law in the state of Ohio that if you leave your dog in the car and it dies you can go to jail for cruelty to animals but leave your child in the car and thats O.K. Here's another that happen to my old neighbor. Mom was at work and he was at home watching the 4 yr old. He was sick and fell asleep on the couch while watching his 4 yr old son. His son got outside and wandered off down the street and a passing officer from Cincinnati police saw the child. Dad went to jail for child endagerment. Yes he was wrong for falling asleep but compare it to this case and it's absolute bullshit. That fat whore should've been fried just like her kid did. And now she goes on Oprah to tell her story and make some money. What a useless piece of SH!T she is.

[rogers]

i don't think we need a law for every thing possible but what we do need are judges who are willing to pass judgement the way they are suppost too. common sense is free some people just don't have any. i mean our "system" spends alot of time on bullshit instead of just allowing the judge or jury just do their jobs or task at hand if the freaking lawmakers wern't spending so much time on b.s. maybe this country could get somewhere... i.e. i don't know the details of the 700B bailout but why did it fail (i don't agree with the idea anyways) then get reworked and passed who got paid off out of it (elected people at that...)

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Neither of the two local women, broke any law, so how do you punish them?




I have to disagree. There are so many loop holes in "child endangerment", yet a person can leave a kid in a car to DIE and that's not breaking a law????

If my son does something really terrible, i can't spank him or else i break a law, yet someone can leave a child in a car to DIE but they break no law and get off free of charge????


It's nothing short of unintentional murder to me and it should be punishable by an equal jail sentence. What if a person does this and has more kids? Or what if she already has other kids? Is she/he fit to care for those kids? How long until it happens again?

[mustang8998]

I have to disagree. There are so many loop holes in "child endangerment", yet a person can leave a kid in a car to DIE and that's not breaking a law????

If my son does something really terrible, i can't spank him or else i break a law, yet someone can leave a child in a car to DIE but they break no law and get off free of charge????


It's nothing short of unintentional murder to me and it should be punishable by an equal jail sentence. What if a person does this and has more kids? Or what if she already has other kids? Is she/he fit to care for those kids? How long until it happens again?

I see the difference David. Intent, or proof of intent is the big snag here. There isn't a law that says it's illegal, to FORGET your child. If someone leaves a dog in the car (as Steve said), it was done with intent. You spanking your child, shows intent. The Prosecutor didn't find any evidence of intent and said that he couldn't point to a law, that she could be found guilty of.

I agree with everyone, she is a dumb bitch and should suffer (more so than just losing her child).

I hope that the lawmakers, get off their ass and do something about this.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

I agree totally. The one thing that I can't understand is how she forgot about the child but remembered the doughnunts. THey have her on surveilance opening the hatch on her suv grabbing the doughnuts , you can clearly see that there was a car seat. We have 3 girls and almost every place we go they are with us. My wife is a stay at home mom and I work. She has the girls about 90% of the time. When I am off I let her go shop or go hang with her friends to give her a break. We have been out 1 time in the past 1.5 years just me and her. The entire night we were checking and double checking where the girls were. We are an extremey busy family, between my work, the girls have cheerleading, soccer, basketball,softball, and dance. No matter what we are doing we know exactly where the girls are. Your kids are more important than anything you have going on. At least they are in my case.
I heard about that too, she went back to the car for the donuts...

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

It just totally baffles me that there isn't already a law or at least part of the child endangerment definition that makes this illegal. I just can't believe you can just say "oops, i forgot" and a person is erased from the world and the courts just let it go. It really boils my blood :mad:

[MrsAPE]

My second biggest problem with this was the 'change in routine' was why she forgot. Hello? Welcome to having kids. There is always a change in routine. That is why they are suppose to be the most important thing in your life. Not your job. I could understand pulling into school and going shit..I forgot to drop her off at daycare. But not 8 hours of forgetting. I do the majority of kid raising around here. That's why I don't work a paying job. But there are time's its up to hubby to do some of the dropping off/picking up. I am always checking in with him. Don't forget. Did you remember? Pretty much the same as checking in with the kids when I am not home. Did you make it home? How was school? Etc. Lame excuse change in routine is. Least in my opinion.

[95redstang]

My second biggest problem with this was the 'change in routine' was why she forgot. Hello? Welcome to having kids. There is always a change in routine. That is why they are suppose to be the most important thing in your life. Not your job. I could understand pulling into school and going shit..I forgot to drop her off at daycare. But not 8 hours of forgetting. I do the majority of kid raising around here. That's why I don't work a paying job. But there are time's its up to hubby to do some of the dropping off/picking up. I am always checking in with him. Don't forget. Did you remember? Pretty much the same as checking in with the kids when I am not home. Did you make it home? How was school? Etc. Lame excuse change in routine is. Least in my opinion.

That's the way it is here at my home. We are always checking on our girls. We are always calling each other to make sure they are ok and we know where the are at all the time.. We have a fenced yard and they are not allowed in the back with out one of us,even though we live in a very safe community(Fairfield). We also have 2 state troopers, 1 West Chester officer, and 2 Fairfield cops on my street. Point is you have to know where your kids are at all times. Your career no matter how long you went to school, or how much money you make takes a backseat to your kids..

[NaomiDstangLvr]

There definitely needs to be a law or something against this, because this happening ONCE is once too many! So I think she should have at least got something for child endangering...

[ewalt]

Yeah, so I guess these people don't need to be punished....

It just happened again!
(http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,436402,00.html)

Does grandma get to be on Oprah too? Sad pathetic ass people.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

This only backs up everything i've said in this thread. These F'ers need punished.

[StangGirlRN]

I have five kids, and there's a sixth sense when they're around. It's a "presence" so to speak that they are there. Our routines/schedules changed many times over the course of their lives, but I never forgot where they were. I don't understand how someone could just forget their child in a car. While I do believe that both women should have been punished through the legal system, I sincerely believe that living with the knowledge that you let your child cook to death in a hot car will certainly make their own lives a living hell. If I had done something like that to my child, I wouldn't want to live. I would go freakin crazy or not be able to breathe whenever I got into a hot car or the weather was warm. Plus consider how society will treat them, at least for a couple of years until people "forget". I think that even though our legal system failed these kids, justice will be served in another way.:(

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I just can't get past how there's supposed to be a difference between child endangerment and leaving your kid to die in a car. Someone mentioned intent, which i guess is the difference, but it's all the same to me. Your job as a parent is to take care of your kids and even accidentally forgetting is a failure of that. If you're so forgetful that you'd forget your own child, you don't need to be a parent.

[mustang8998]

I just can't get past how there's supposed to be a difference between child endangerment and leaving your kid to die in a car. Someone mentioned intent, which i guess is the difference, but it's all the same to me. Your job as a parent is to take care of your kids and even accidentally forgetting is a failure of that. If you're so forgetful that you'd forget your own child, you don't need to be a parent.

Ok, David, one more time. Child endangerment is putting a child at risk, INTENTIONALLY! Forgetting a child, is different. It is reprehensible and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE A CRIME. But, under current law, it sadly isn't a crime.

Have you contacted your state rep, to demand a law against this?

[Timido]

Intentional or not I would at least call it child endangerment and make them pay for what they did. Their actions directly caused the death of a baby who depends on them for everything.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Ok, David, one more time. Child endangerment is putting a child at risk, INTENTIONALLY! Forgetting a child, is different. It is reprehensible and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE A CRIME. But, under current law, it sadly isn't a crime.

Have you contacted your state rep, to demand a law against this?


I know what you're saying, i understand the difference...it just pisses me off because it's just a loophole.

Lets say i leave my 5 year old at home alone and i go to work, and he gets ahold of matches or something and burns the house down and dies in the fire. That's child endangerment because i intentionally left him at home.

Would it really be any different if i say i "forgot" him at home? I understand why this doesn't fall under child endangerment, but it's just a BS loophole that's letting parents murder their children and get off without any kind of punishment and to me that's just unbelievable.

[ewalt]

Ok, David, one more time. Child endangerment is putting a child at risk, INTENTIONALLY! Forgetting a child, is different. It is reprehensible and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE A CRIME. But, under current law, it sadly isn't a crime.

Have you contacted your state rep, to demand a law against this?

Ohio law on child endangerment makes absolutely no mention of intent. None.



http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2919.22
2919.22 Endangering children.

(A) No person, who is the parent, guardian, custodian, person having custody or control, or person in loco parentis of a child under eighteen years of age or a mentally or physically handicapped child under twenty-one years of age, shall create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating a duty of care, protection, or support. It is not a violation of a duty of care, protection, or support under this division when the parent, guardian, custodian, or person having custody or control of a child treats the physical or mental illness or defect of the child by spiritual means through prayer alone, in accordance with the tenets of a recognized religious body.

(2) If the offender violates division (A) or (B)(1) of this section, endangering children is one of the following:

(c) If the violation is a violation of division (A) of this section and results in serious physical harm to the child involved, a felony of the third degree;

There I don't see any evidence that these women couldn't be charged with at minimum child endangerment (obviously under only ohio law, I'm not going to look at KY). Child abuse possibly fits as well.



http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2151.031
2151.031 - Child Abuse Defined
As used in this chapter, an “abused child” includes any child who:

(B) Is endangered as defined in section 2919.22 of the Revised Code, except that the court need not find that any person has been convicted under that section in order to find that the child is an abused child;

(C) Exhibits evidence of any physical or mental injury or death, inflicted other than by accidental means, or an injury or death which is at variance with the history given of it. Except as provided in division (D) of this section, a child exhibiting evidence of corporal punishment or other physical disciplinary measure by a parent, guardian, custodian, person having custody or control, or person in loco parentis of a child is not an abused child under this division if the measure is not prohibited under section 2919.22 of the Revised Code.

(D) Because of the acts of his parents, guardian, or custodian, suffers physical or mental injury that harms or threatens to harm the child’s health or welfare.

Accidental means - would be different than negligent means. Also, part D covers a criminal act IMO in relation to these cases. Accidental would mean that through no cause of their own, negligent would mean through no intentional fault. Of course, its why courts get to decipher cases, to determine the meaning of law when there is room for interpretations. Law is written specifically for there to be interpretations. Case law would need to be looked at in order to understand if there was any previous precedence for convicting someone in a case like this. It is the same, it seems, the reason why at times, people are charged with negligent homicide in car accidents.

It's only fair that a court decide if these people were negligent in their regard or if this should be considered purely accidental. I see no evidence in current ORC that definitively says these women are not guilty of punishable crime. Maybe it exist in case law?

The law pertaining specifically to child endangering does not at all even mention accidental endangerment. Keep in mind, the two laws - Child Abuse and Endangering children - are indeed separate laws. 2151.031 specifically states: "Is endangered as defined in section 2919.22 of the Revised Code, except that the court need not find that any person has been convicted under that section in order to find that the child is an abused child;" and 2919.22 makes no mention of 2151.031 or any other laws regarding child abuse. They are clearly separate.

Therefore I could see if maybe you said she was not, under current law, subject to criminal child abuse. However child endangerment in fact seems to fit very nicely in this case. And in fact they should (have been)/be charged with child endangerment.

[Mista Bone]

What pisses me off, family of three, both parents working different shifts because they cannot afford day care, busting ass to make ends meet. Mother gets home from working third shift during the summer with a young kid.

She makes sure the doors are locked so child cannot get out and plays inside. Well she doses off while kid is also napping on floor. Kids wakes up before tired mom and manages to get outside, plays in the yard quietly. Cops come and mother is arrested for child endangerment, spends the weekend in jail because hearing isn't until monday. She is shamed, misses three days of work.

Who here as a parent and child didn't do the same thing?????


But a mother gets off free and kills her child????? Sure she will live with the guilt (a heavy burden, yes) for the rest of her life, but what about the other working mother????

Oh yeah, the lady that fell asleep......she wasn't white.

I'll see if I can find the story........

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I speak a lot from my own feelings, so i'm clearly not the person to decide what's fair in these cases. I would be a very poor choice for jury duty. I just picture either of my kids dying in a hot car and it just puts me over the edge...so i guess you can say i'm venting in this thread more than anything. It's like someone said, my kids have a presence when they're with me...my mind switches into a different gear when they're with me. I drive slower, i'm more alert, i just don't see how it's possible to genuinely forget about your kids. I guess it's the dark side in me that wants vengeance.

[Mista Bone]

1999, Black woman charged AND convicted on child endangerment, lost the appeal. She was a foster mom......child didn't die.

http://thebellwetherdaily.blogspot.com/2007/09/ohio-prosecutors-nifong-moment-iii-in.html

the court records

http://www.unitecincinnati.com/blog/mortondecision.pdf


2007 and 2008, two white woman get off scott free of legal charges for KILLING their kids.



Morally, the two mothers that KILLED their kids shall be judged by a higher power one day. Myself I can't forgive something like that.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

This is happening way too much! Maybe their doing it on purpose? Seriously did you ever hear people doing this 20 years ago??? Its just crazy, I don't understand it!

[Mista Bone]

20 years ago moms didn't have a cell phone glued to their ear 24/7.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

Very true! I only really have mine for emergencies..

[ewalt]

This is happening way too much! Maybe their doing it on purpose? Seriously did you ever hear people doing this 20 years ago??? Its just crazy, I don't understand it!

That may be an interesting point, but for another reason.

Today, society is more allowing of people not taking blame. Society allows people to blame things on the stress of life or something else entirely, and it seems like, no matter what someone does, there is some reason why it's not really their fault.

Look at schools. They are struggling. Teachers don't stay long. Why? Because they can't wrangle in these kids. It's a cancer on society. Parents don't do a good job at parenting, kids don't mind in school, and if the teacher dare blames the kids, the parents are all up in arms..... Sometimes for nothing more than, "No one is going to say anything about my kids."

Look at the mortgage problems. Yeah, some of the blame belongs squarely on the banks for loaning these people money, the government for promoting giving loans to people who can't support those loans. But how many are calling for the people who took the loans, to take their share of the blame? Not too many.

It's always someone else's fault. Nobody ever does anything...

Kinda like some people in this thread who are saying about it not being intentional.... who cares. Someone needs to be held responsible, end of story. Someone caused this.

People are largely not willing to take blame for their own shit. It's easier not to. It seems like today, things are moving more towards people not having any control over their own lives, there always has to be some external source of our screwups......

Kid shoots up school.... must be the video games and music. Gang of kids beat up one single kid.... must be the pressures of gang culture (peer pressure.) We can find reasons for everything.

[Mista Bone]

Mom quit teaching at Ross HS because they weren't gonna allow swats no more.

The generation that didn't fear the swats.....they are rasing the kids of tomorrow and FAILING!

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Well, i never once got swats...the one time i went to the hall to get'em i threaded to turn the paddle on the teacher :lol:

I don't know if swats are the answer...i wouldn't want someone else punishing my child, i'll handle that myself.

[Mista Bone]

Thats just it, the kids are being unpunished and therefore think they can never do any wrong, everything will be a "slap on the wrist"......no real penalty.

Kill your kid because "You forgot".....no charges filed.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Thats just it, the kids are being unpunished and therefore think they can never do any wrong, everything will be a "slap on the wrist"......no real penalty.

Kill your kid because "You forgot".....no charges filed.

Well, that's a different subject...i say the school communicates any needed punishment to the parent and the parent distributes it. If my kid is gonna get swats i'd rather they came from my hand.

[mustang8998]

Ohio law on child endangerment makes absolutely no mention of intent. None.



There I don't see any evidence that these women couldn't be charged with at minimum child endangerment (obviously under only ohio law, I'm not going to look at KY). Child abuse possibly fits as well.



Accidental means - would be different than negligent means. Also, part D covers a criminal act IMO in relation to these cases. Accidental would mean that through no cause of their own, negligent would mean through no intentional fault. Of course, its why courts get to decipher cases, to determine the meaning of law when there is room for interpretations. Law is written specifically for there to be interpretations. Case law would need to be looked at in order to understand if there was any previous precedence for convicting someone in a case like this. It is the same, it seems, the reason why at times, people are charged with negligent homicide in car accidents.

It's only fair that a court decide if these people were negligent in their regard or if this should be considered purely accidental. I see no evidence in current ORC that definitively says these women are not guilty of punishable crime. Maybe it exist in case law?

The law pertaining specifically to child endangering does not at all even mention accidental endangerment. Keep in mind, the two laws - Child Abuse and Endangering children - are indeed separate laws. 2151.031 specifically states: "Is endangered as defined in section 2919.22 of the Revised Code, except that the court need not find that any person has been convicted under that section in order to find that the child is an abused child;" and 2919.22 makes no mention of 2151.031 or any other laws regarding child abuse. They are clearly separate.

Therefore I could see if maybe you said she was not, under current law, subject to criminal child abuse. However child endangerment in fact seems to fit very nicely in this case. And in fact they should (have been)/be charged with child endangerment.

I'll let you take the law up, with the prosecutors. They are the ones that don't see where endangerment is warranted. I suspect they may know the law better than you, or I.

I'll ask any of you this. You all have spent your time writing your thoughts, in this thread. Have (again I ask) any of you written your State Rep, about writing a law, to punish this behavior?

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I'll let you take the law up, with the prosecutors. They are the ones that don't see where endangerment is warranted. I suspect they may know the law better than you, or I.

I'll ask any of you this. You all have spent your time writing your thoughts, in this thread. Have (again I ask) any of you written your State Rep, about writing a law, to punish this behavior?


I haven't but i would be glad to if i knew where to start?

[ewalt]

I'll let you take the law up, with the prosecutors. They are the ones that don't see where endangerment is warranted. I suspect they may know the law better than you, or I.

I'll ask any of you this. You all have spent your time writing your thoughts, in this thread. Have (again I ask) any of you written your State Rep, about writing a law, to punish this behavior?

County prosecutors are public servants who are voted into office. They don't have to be voted in next time around. They also have discretion.

This is hardly a matter of a state problem. The Hamilton County prosecutor decided to not pursue any charges. That is left to his discretion. It was a bad move, flat out. Most prosecutors wouldn't even put themselves in that position, would let it goto grand jury and let them decide if criminal charges should be pursued.

Did you even read the law? Child endangerment clearly fits, all you have to do is read the text. So what should anyone write anyone about? State representatives are gonna be thinking... "Hmm, there is already a law on the books for child endangerment."

Hardly needed to have a law that precisely says it's illegal to leave your kid in the car, that's silly.

[Holly]

Hardly needed to have a law that precisely says it's illegal to leave your kid in the car, that's silly.


I stopped at Starbucks on Columbia Parkway last Thursday morning. I walked out past a car (Mercedes) that had two kids in the backseat, it was running, but locked, Dad was inside getting himself a drink (had to be dad, there were only 2 other men in there other than me).

It was a cool morning, but still, bad, bad idea. :dummy:

[wolverine8490]

Personally, whether it was really an accident or not, they should have seen some time. There are a lot of things in this world that are considered accidents, and people still see jail time for a lot less.

Not to start a whole new debate, but the other thing that gets under my skin is that you know if it was the dad that left the kid in the car, there would have been a different outcome.

If it truly was an accident I can't believe that a parent would even want to continue living if they really did not mean to leave their child in the car and have them suffer and die. If it were me, I dont know how i could live the rest of my life thinking about it.

[IWRBB]

Some of the girls at work were giving that lady a hard time the other day. They said she was known to have a habit of leaving her kid in the car. That was their issue with the whole thing, that she was in the habit of doing it and people had warned her what would happen. Then it happened.

[mustang8998]

County prosecutors are public servants who are voted into office. They don't have to be voted in next time around. They also have discretion.

This is hardly a matter of a state problem. The Hamilton County prosecutor decided to not pursue any charges. That is left to his discretion. It was a bad move, flat out. Most prosecutors wouldn't even put themselves in that position, would let it goto grand jury and let them decide if criminal charges should be pursued.

Did you even read the law? Child endangerment clearly fits, all you have to do is read the text. So what should anyone write anyone about? State representatives are gonna be thinking... "Hmm, there is already a law on the books for child endangerment."

Hardly needed to have a law that precisely says it's illegal to leave your kid in the car, that's silly.

I thought the one, was Warren co. No matter, even Joe Deters said that he wouldn't try to prosecute it either, if it were in Hamilton Co.

And yes, I read the law, but I'm no lawyer. Laws can be interpreted in different ways. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be a crime, but apparently even prosecutors don't see it fit.


And if you think it's "silly" to write to a State Rep, you are part of the problem.

[ewalt]

I thought the one, was Warren co. No matter, even Joe Deters said that he wouldn't try to prosecute it either, if it were in Hamilton Co.

And yes, I read the law, but I'm no lawyer. Laws can be interpreted in different ways. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be a crime, but apparently even prosecutors don't see it fit.


And if you think it's "silly" to write to a State Rep, you are part of the problem.

ONE, maybe TWO prosecutors thought it not right to charge her. I'm sure you'd find plenty that would have no qualms about it.

Law can be interpreted, it's clearly written that way in order to allow courts to do their function.

I didn't say it was silly to write a state representative, now did I? I said it would be silly to have a law that says "You can't leave your kids unattended in a car." That's redundant.



http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2919.22
2919.22 Endangering children.

(A) No person, who is the parent, guardian, custodian, person having custody or control, or person in loco parentis of a child under eighteen years of age or a mentally or physically handicapped child under twenty-one years of age, shall create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating a duty of care, protection, or support. It is not a violation of a duty of care, protection, or support under this division when the parent, guardian, custodian, or person having custody or control of a child treats the physical or mental illness or defect of the child by spiritual means through prayer alone, in accordance with the tenets of a recognized religious body.

(2) If the offender violates division (A) or (B)(1) of this section, endangering children is one of the following:

(c) If the violation is a violation of division (A) of this section and results in serious physical harm to the child involved, a felony of the third degree;

Seems fairly clear the state representatives agree with me, you can't cause harm to your kids, no matter what. As a parent you have "custody or control", and as such you (being the beginning of the paragraph says *No Person*) "shall create a substantial risk to the health or safety of the child, by violating duty of care, protection or support."

Clearly, the parents had custody and indeed control, and by leaving their kids in the car unattended violated duty of care by creating substantial risk!

Where does the law need to be amended? It's right there, you can read the whole statue, there is no exception. There is no case in which state law says you are ok to endanger the life of your or anyone else kids. There is no wording in the books that says that the prosecutors would be precluded in charging these women because of some circumstance.

If you can tell me what about the law is lacking, I'll gladly draft up a letter for all of us to send! It seems very clear, reading that, you are responsible for your kids safety in concern to law.

[mustang8998]

If you can tell me what about the law is lacking, I'll gladly draft up a letter for all of us to send! It seems very clear, reading that, you are responsible for your kids safety in concern to law.

If I could read the Prosecutors mind, I would tell you. I'm only stating the facts that were laid out by the Prosecutor. He didn't have enough grounds, to prove guilt and Deters agreed with him. These guys usually don't mess around, with cases where they don't stand a good chance of winning.

Maybe Holly could ask around the firm she works for. I don't know their specialty in law, but might be able to shed some light, on whatever loophole the Prosecutor sees.

I'm done with arguing over this. I have repeatedly stated, that something needs to be done, about this problem. You seem to have the legal expertise, so you figure it out. Then, you can run for Prosecutor and I will vote for you!

[ewalt]

Well, at least I have one vote right?

I don't understand why the prosecutor declined to take this to trial. But I do understand that in politics, well....... you have politics.

I don't see how this is an issue the state representatives can fix. In fact Mista provided us with wonderful proof that there is indeed case law to support the book law I've presented. The lady was indeed convicted of a first degree misdemeanor, and it was upheld on appeal. Exact same case, different prosecutor. Prosecutor Allen moved forward and got his conviction and the kid didn't even die as did in this case.

You can read the case, it's an easy and quick read.

The only solution I can find it to not vote these guys back in. I don't vote in either of those counties however......

[Mista Bone]

Read over this link, disregard any racial comments. Esp. the updates at the bottom.

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/09/has-white-woman-brenda-nesselroad-slaby.html

Once again, Clermont Co. is corrupt. Anyone remember the Carrie Culberson case?????

Donald White got a conviction in 2000, but didn't filed charges for a DEATH in 2007????

Look at the laywer ties and what not.

[Holly]

Once again, Clermont Co. is corrupt. Anyone remember the Carrie Culberson case?????



Carrie Culberson was Clinton County.

[Mista Bone]

Thanks Holly, I tried getting the county info last night but couldn't find it.

"Small town" corruption though.

I'll be digging thru a few of the links within the links I've posted.......but honestly those two mothers will be judge by a higher power as will the two faced prosecuter. They will think Ohio cold will be nice when they are in a pit of fire!

[mustang8998]

...but honestly those two mothers will be judge by a higher power as will the two faced prosecuter. They will think Ohio cold will be nice when they are in a pit of fire!

That, we agree upon!