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Is your Mustang really making the power it should? [Archive] - StangBangerz Forums

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Yknot
09-06-2008, 11:44 PM
You know most of these threads on this site as well as most other Mustang sites all deal with power. Power Adders, High Performance Parts and anything else people add to enhance there Mustangs. While everyone is looking for the Next best part, have you ever thought about the engine you currently have , and how it's doing......Don't get me wrong, I like everyone else, likes to add to the horsepower level, or overall look of the car, but from what I have seen.....Maybe we should be looking a little closer to home.
Here's the problem, and one of the reasons why I believe most current Cobra owners keep looking for more and more power. Maybe, just maybe the power level you were at when the car was new, or last year....last month, isn't the power level your at today.

Let me explain.....I've been involved in the modular motors for several years now, and I like to dabble in the cylinder head and engine building aspect of these cars, mainly with the 4V-32valve engines, but not exclusively. While I don't claim to be the best engine guy out here, long from that, I have disassembled and assembled a good many of these engines. And it concerns me greatly with what I have found on say some 80% of all Ford Modular engines.......Gunk. Yell Gunk is a funky little word not used seriously in any industry but fuel adds, but Gunk is a evil thing to have. And I'm finding alot of it lately. It use to be I'd look for signs, signs of how the original owner of the engine maintained it. You know, there are many things you can tell about an engine while you are tearing it down, and with the modular engine group, it's even easier to see it's history, good or bad. While tearing into one, the first thing you come across is the bottom end, here you can see if the car was serviced right, if the guy ran it hard, used it only for short trips...things like that. Once the valve covers are off, you get another picture of what happened and how the car was treated, and once you have the heads off and the water plugs out, I can see if the car was over heated, rev-ed to high and several other tail tell signs of the previous ownership. But lately, every head I remove is covered with a goldish like finish that coats everything under the valve cover and sometimes inside the block and oil pan. This I believe is the result of the newer oil standards, were they lowered the Lead and Zinc content, along with many other additives. These blocks have increased wear on all internal parts, especially in the head where the cam and followers are. It use to be that 4-V heads would look great as long as they never experienced an oil shortage, or extreme overheating, but now it's almost normal to find extreme cam shaft and bearing wear, to the point of many heads being useless. Further dis-assembly of the valve train now revels all that Gunk I was talking about. The complete under side of the valves, both intake and exhaust is covered in Gunk, and I mean thick built-up Gunk many times over a 1/2" on each side of the valve. Many of these valves were so bad that they were hanging open, because the Gunk was so badly built-up under the valve seat and down into the guide area. I first started seeing this about two years ago, then it was sporadic and I just contributed it too poor maintenance, but now I see it in 80% of all the engines I tear down.
Let's stop for a moment and think about what this does to your engine.

On many of the engines, the Gunk is so built-up it is almost completely blocking the intake and exhaust tract! The last two heads I tore into, had this very problem of almost complete blockage. Complete blockage is off the hook, but think about an engine with only half that amount.....We spend thousands on trick pieces to gain only a few % of horsepower, yet run around with clogged ports a Honda couldn't breath through. I suppose this problem is a mixture of bad motor oil and even worse fuel standards. And don't think this engines are not representable of the general population, because they are. Many are right off the street.
A engine is first and foremost a air pump....if it can't pump air, it cant do it's job. We talk about engine efficiency alot in the trade, and a typical 4-V Mod motor in good mechanical condition will run at about 80% efficiency, while a good, fresh race engine will see 90%. I can only guess what these engines are turning with all this Gunk, most have to be down in the 40% range and a few I've seen can not be above 25%. This is a huge problem....Not only are you throwing away performance, your loosing valuable fuel mileage as well. Yell I know.....everyone says not me, well it has to be most of you, cause my engines are telling me so. The bad thing is if your engine has a severe case of Gunk, you can't fix it without tearing the heads off. On the other hand, if you don't think you have a bad Gunk issue, I would advise you to start and continue with a serious Fuel Injection cleaner routine, like every fill-up. Gunk, like so many wear issues, sneaks up on you. You don't feel the loss of say 1-2% of performance, probably not even 5-15%. But as it slowly makes it way through the valve train, you'll end up noticing the change. I think thats why so many constantly keep searching for more power, they don't realize the engine is getting slower and slower, so they look for the next best thing, when really it's a problem no bolt-on will fix.
I don't want to alarm you, I was alarmed when it kept showing up, and was getting worse, I only want to let you know the problem exist, and it's not going away.
I also know the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and this isn't a problem that makes alot of noise, so most will dismiss this, or simply think their OK, because I don't see the problem. Thats fine, but I'm now requesting that the heads be tore down before I purchase them, so I can see the bearing journals. I have too many bad cores to do other wise. While I don't drive these engines, and don't care if the former owners suffered performance or mileage issues, I do have to fix them, and the mess they left behind. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

Dirtyd0g
09-07-2008, 02:33 AM
Most of the engines have gunk. Generally cause by running excessive octane fuel for what is required or engines that just never get wound out.
Another trick I have found is transmission fluid. You can tear any of my motors down and be surprised by how clean they are inside. what's the trick....You guessed it transmission fluid. A quart to top off the oil a day or so before an oil change. Clean the upper engine with ATF and water once or twice a year. Just about a 1/4 quart. Works as good as seafoam with a fraction of the price.
I have a 95 oil burner (t-bird) and it runs consistantly mid to high 14's. On a 4200 lb car. I'd say it is making the power it should for an NPI junk box.
Alan

Stangman
09-07-2008, 04:45 AM
I know its not a mod motor, but my '94 with 213,500 miles gets 93 octane, 12 degrees of timing, and wound out as often as I feel necessary :bigthumb

It also uses about a quart of oil every 3,000 miles and has since I've owned it, all the way back from 129,000 miles. But the car doesnt smoke one bit. It also gets seafoam every 3 oil changes, with every oil change using lucas oil stabilizer and valvoline 10w40

I think I'll make it to 300,000... what do you guys think?

NXcoupe
09-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Something I am seeing that you didn't mention is an egg shaping of the cylinder and the thrust part of the piston wearing similarly. I think the new oils with the lack of heavy metals is totally to blame for that wear and the lack of additives in fuel is to blame for the build up on valves, coupled with IMRC plates that rarely get opened. JM .02 worth.

Timido
09-08-2008, 08:15 PM
My secrect for cleaning out the carbon is push the go fash button. Nitrous helps clean off the top end of the motor.

Black Horse
09-08-2008, 09:09 PM
A lot also depends on the type/brand of oil you use. I would almost be willing to bet that if you opened up my 90k 4.6 4v you would find very little crap/gunk. Yes I rip on it from time to time, but the oil is the key to long life!

In my race motor (and past race motors) I experienced ZERO oil related failures!

Bluecrew07
09-08-2008, 09:16 PM
What the hell is this sea foam stuff?? what does it do?

mustangjon
09-09-2008, 12:07 AM
What the hell is this sea foam stuff?? what does it do?

its a petroleam based cleaner/additive. Was year and years ago designed for marine applications and mechanics have brought it over to land. I dump a half can to full can every 3-5 fill ups, in tank (cleans injectors and such), I add 1/2 quart to an oil change as detergent, and every so often run some through the intake hose, to clean out tb, and intake tract. Being petroleum based wont hurt seals and such. But its 6-8 bucks a can.

2-8-1
09-09-2008, 10:47 AM
My secrect for cleaning out the carbon is push the go fash button. Nitrous helps clean off the top end of the motor.

No kidding man, after this past track day, my car has ran better than it has in the past year.

Bluecrew07
09-09-2008, 06:22 PM
its a petroleam based cleaner/additive. Was year and years ago designed for marine applications and mechanics have brought it over to land. I dump a half can to full can every 3-5 fill ups, in tank (cleans injectors and such), I add 1/2 quart to an oil change as detergent, and every so often run some through the intake hose, to clean out tb, and intake tract. Being petroleum based wont hurt seals and such. But its 6-8 bucks a can.
Where do you get it at?

04 Venom
09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
A lot also depends on the type/brand of oil you use. I would almost be willing to bet that if you opened up my 90k 4.6 4v you would find very little crap/gunk. Yes I rip on it from time to time, but the oil is the key to long life!

In my race motor (and past race motors) I experienced ZERO oil related failures!

What oil are you using?

mustangjon
09-09-2008, 09:06 PM
walmart/autozone/ect wally world is usually the cheapest think i seen it for like 5.75 a can there

Steves LX
09-10-2008, 11:11 AM
Hey Josh its good stuff but be prepared for a smoke show.

Stangman
09-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Hey Josh its good stuff but be prepared for a smoke show.

Yes.. I highly recommend staying IN the car with the windows up during the cleaning process! LOL

na svt
09-19-2008, 10:33 PM
I've removed IMRCs soon after a Seafoam treatment and they still looked and operated awfully. Yes, the stuff does create a helluva smoke show but it really doesn't work that well.

2-8-1
09-20-2008, 12:06 AM
Yes.. I highly recommend staying IN the car with the windows up during the cleaning process! LOL

I used Sea Foam on my car one time. I smoked up my Aunt and Uncle's Garage (they are Chevy people)

It was my little victory.

e5shea
09-20-2008, 01:39 PM
Must be a 4v/3v problem. I'm quite sure my 2v is running as good as its going to without some heavy modifications.

Mavowar
09-26-2008, 08:38 PM
I've removed IMRCs soon after a Seafoam treatment and they still looked and operated awfully. Yes, the stuff does create a helluva smoke show but it really doesn't work that well.

Those treatmeants are really for preventative purposes......if it gets that nasty you need to take it a part and clean it....

Black Horse
09-26-2008, 11:47 PM
What oil are you using?

Schaffer's