? for the police officers in here [Archive]

95redstang

08-21-2008, 06:05 PM

This may sound like a dumb questions, but are the police cruisers equipped with only a camera in the front? I got a very bullsh!t ticket a couple weeks ago and I am going to court tomorrow to fight it. The ticket was issued to me because the officer said I drove in the hazard lane. Keep in mind it"s not the emergency lane. It's the lane that has the white stripes in it. I tried to explain to him that I had been trying to merge for almost a mile and nobody would allow me to merge so I could cross the river into Ky on 75.I was in one of a large SUV limo's. I don't think he could have even seen if I ran through that hazard lane or not since he was parked in it himself and he would have to use his rearview mirror to see it. He was acting like a bit of a smart ass. He thought I was just trying to go around the backed up traffic. I exxplained to him that was not my intention. He said I should have started merging around 275 in Springdale where I got on 75. Then he said I should have just went completely around downtown then to 471. I told him I was just going to Mainstrausse and that made no since at all. If it was a speeding ticket or something where I would have put people in jeopardy then I wouuld have just paid the ticket. So I am trying to figure out my best approach for this tomorrow.

PaulFiveOh

08-21-2008, 06:20 PM

barkey

08-21-2008, 06:22 PM

What department

Different departments have different setups.

95redstang

08-21-2008, 09:25 PM

Your best approach was to do real research sooner than 1 day before your court date.

You don't need to acquire evidence, simply go to your arraignment and plead not guilty.

Then us smart ones on here will tell you to plead it down to a no points moving vio and pay it out. The dumb shits will protest that you shouldn't be intelligent and wiggle your way out of the grasp of huge government. Those people will also vote for Obama. LOL

I have actually done research on this. I haven't had much experience with the law before. This is only the second time I have been pulled over and I'm 34. The first time was a very bad experience with a very racist ohio state trooper who had his gun out of his holster for no reason other than legal window tint and a missing front plate. But that is a different matter.
I have a cdl and I don't want some bullsh!t ticket on my record. I have all intentions to plead not guilty. I don't think he can actually prove that I drove in the zone..

95redstang

08-21-2008, 09:26 PM

What department

Different departments have different setups.

Unfortunately it was Cincinnati. I was heading south on 75 where the highway splits to the Louisville/Lexington exit or you can go donwtown...

RIXXX93GT

08-21-2008, 09:32 PM

mustang8998

08-21-2008, 09:56 PM

He thought I was just trying to go around the backed up traffic.

Thats what most people, are trying to do, in this instance.

I'm sure you know your way around town, maybe he was right.

Timido

08-21-2008, 10:19 PM

I say talk to them and try to loose the points and pay a fine like Paul said pleading down the case. Thats what I would do. I dont think the politics have anything to do with any of it.

95redstang

08-21-2008, 10:51 PM

I say talk to them and try to loose the points and pay a fine like Paul said pleading down the case. Thats what I would do. I dont think the politics have anything to do with any of it.

That's what I was thinking as well.I don't really care about the cash,it's only a $104 ticket. I can make that up pretty quick. The points are my main concern...

Timido

08-21-2008, 10:53 PM

I have a CDL that is very important to me If I were to get a ticket I would fight it.

95redstang

08-21-2008, 10:54 PM

Thats what most people, are trying to do, in this instance.

I'm sure you know your way around town, maybe he was right.

Honestly I wasn't trying to go around traffic. I started trying to merge way back around the ludlow viaduct exit. I know I don't have to convince you but I have no reason to lie to you either. If that was my intention I would admit to it.

Black92LX

08-21-2008, 11:02 PM

All depends on the department.
Many have no cameras.

The dumb shits will protest that you shouldn't be intelligent and wiggle your way out of the grasp of huge government. Those people will also vote for Obama. LOL
That was only in your case when you had already admitted you were guilty of the violation you were accused of, People were telling you to suck it up and be a man and take your punishment.
It's called taking responsibility for your actions.
Those people would not vote for Obama.

But in this case he feels he was not guilty, then by all means use the system to work through it.
But when you are guilty and you know it working the system falls under a different labeling.

Edit just as a sidenote:
The reason/intention of driving in that lane is of no matter when it comes to the legality of operating in that sort of lane. According to law a lane with white stripes in it is not to be operated in under any circumstances.

My suggestion is go to court/call the prosecutor and explain the situation and see if you can work something out.
I understand your intention but you were still in violation of a traffic law so technically it's not a bullshit ticket.

Would I have written you a ticket for it most likely not.
I am not too familiar with the spot you are referring to but sounds like there is some pretty serious traffic there. They may have been having lots of problems there with people using that lane, maybe an increase in injury collisions causing them to watch that area.

thecollector

08-21-2008, 11:21 PM

I have actually done research on this. I haven't had much experience with the law before. This is only the second time I have been pulled over and I'm 34. The first time was a very bad experience with a very racist ohio state trooper who had his gun out of his holster for no reason other than legal window tint and a missing front plate. But that is a different matter.
I have a cdl and I don't want some bullsh!t ticket on my record. I have all intentions to plead not guilty. I don't think he can actually prove that I drove in the zone..

He is a sworn Peace Officer, he doesn't need to "prove" your guilt. Misdemeanor offenses in Ohio do not require proof if they took place in the presence of a police officer, just the sworn testimony which he will provide when he is summonsed to court is enough evidence. Any evidence you can provide- even additional witnesses are not stronger than his testimony. When it comes to the word of an officer (whom the judge has probably already seen once+ that day) versus your "he has no proof" defense you will do nothing but loose time from work, pay court costs and still pay your ticket. I have spent time on both sides of the system. I am not doubting your story but it takes A LOT for a Cincinnati patrol car to initiate a traffic stop, especially on a commercial vehicle like the one you were driving. If it was OHP or one of Simon's boys I might be more understanding.... Good luck.

PaulFiveOh

08-22-2008, 07:23 AM

^ Very good point. CPD does not routinely make traffic stops on 75 unless they are actively looking for speeders.

Hell, I do 70 side by side CPD on 71 Downtown and they don't think twice.

The political thing was a joke...PWI up top.

02mingryGT

08-22-2008, 12:53 PM

Then us smart ones on here will tell you to plead it down to a no points moving vio and pay it out. The dumb shits will protest that you shouldn't be intelligent and wiggle your way out of the grasp of huge government. Those people will also vote for Obama. LOL

:lol::lol::lol:

95redstang

08-22-2008, 03:34 PM

Well I went to court and plead not guilty. I was being charge with driving on the wrong side of the road. I had the judge repeat it back to me to make sure I heard that right. That is not the charge on the ticket. After pleading not guilty I had to go to another room to set up a court date. So I have to go back on Oct. 20th @ 9am..
It was unbelievable to see how many people got busted for driving with no dl's and then show up with them and their case is dismissed..

95redstang

08-22-2008, 03:38 PM

He is a sworn Peace Officer, he doesn't need to "prove" your guilt. Misdemeanor offenses in Ohio do not require proof if they took place in the presence of a police officer, just the sworn testimony which he will provide when he is summonsed to court is enough evidence. Any evidence you can provide- even additional witnesses are not stronger than his testimony. When it comes to the word of an officer (whom the judge has probably already seen once+ that day) versus your "he has no proof" defense you will do nothing but loose time from work, pay court costs and still pay your ticket. I have spent time on both sides of the system. I am not doubting your story but it takes A LOT for a Cincinnati patrol car to initiate a traffic stop, especially on a commercial vehicle like the one you were driving. If it was OHP or one of Simon's boys I might be more understanding.... Good luck.

I kind of understand what you are saying but, if that was the case they can pull people over for the hell of it. Then go to court and collect people's money
no matter if they are guilty or not. So if the officer that made the stop said you did it then tough sh!t no matter if you actually did something or not. :screwy:
THere has to be proof that you did something wrong. If I am not mistaken there is the whole innocent until proven guilty. No evidence then no guilt?

Paul408Notch

08-22-2008, 05:37 PM

Your best approach was to do real research sooner than 1 day before your court date.

I still don't understand how you haven't been hit by a runaway bus.

mustang8998

08-22-2008, 08:55 PM

And:
The political thing was a joke...PWI up top.

Aren't you 19..............

PaulFiveOh

08-22-2008, 10:28 PM

Turned 20 on July 31.

And have successfully litigated 3 tickets. Any other questions slim?

331TwistedWedge

08-23-2008, 12:10 AM

i hope you get jail time, then get butt poked ... you big fairy :lol:

95redstang

08-23-2008, 02:26 AM

i hope you get jail time, then get butt poked ... you big fairy :lol:

That's not right dude..:lol:That's probably the funniest sh!t you have ever said...:lol:
Well maybe not quite ass funny as when you started hunching on Larry from behind at tristate. When you finally let him up he was walking with a limp...:lol:

mustang8998

08-23-2008, 10:50 AM

Oh, I see, that makes it okay to drink then, NOT!

thecollector

08-23-2008, 11:51 AM

I kind of understand what you are saying but, if that was the case they can pull people over for the hell of it. Then go to court and collect people's money
no matter if they are guilty or not. So if the officer that made the stop said you did it then tough sh!t no matter if you actually did something or not. :screwy:
THere has to be proof that you did something wrong. If I am not mistaken there is the whole innocent until proven guilty. No evidence then no guilt?

Here's an example if you get a speeding ticket, An officer does not have to bring a digital printout of your trap speed or show you the radar gun(many still will). Nor does he have to bring a video tape of you speeding to court with him. If you claim innocence and he says your guilty, a conviction is looming. His testimony is considered evidence since he is a sworn police officer. A great deal of trust is placed in our law enforcement officers, and that doesn't always work out the best. It sounds as if you should get out of it since he charged with the wrong section of the ORC. When you go to trial, the prossecutor will ask to ammend the charges to change the charge to an appropriate violation. You have to consent to these changes. Object to the ammendment and you walk out and pay the cashier court costs.

I have known officers that have purposefuly written tickets incorrectly (not that yours did) because they want you to recognize your error and alter your habits, but don't want to harm you financially. NOT ALL POLICE ARE OUT TO GET PEOPLE contrary to what a lot of board members believe.

Their are exceptions however. At almost every employer there is at least one complete D-bag that no one can stand and has a major personality disposition. Unfortunately being a police officer is a job and police dept.'s are employers, so occasionally a d-bag gets to wear a badge whereas most of the employees around him(other cops) are normal.

Good luck with the case, let us know how it turns out.

PaulFiveOh

08-23-2008, 08:58 PM

I have known officers that have purposefuly written tickets incorrectly (not that yours did) because they want you to recognize your error and alter your habits, but don't want to harm you financially.

:confused: Yea....Not going along with that right there.

thecollector

08-25-2008, 08:30 AM

:confused: Yea....Not going along with that right there.

Every time you have interaction with an officer you are being assesed for your arrestability. If you are speaking one on one or being followed in traffic. If you have ever been CHARGED with a crime, regardless of conviction it goes on your record in the NCIS (national criminal information system). Every time an officer pulls up behind you he views this record of your past. If you have just committed a minor traffic violation, and you have another mark against you a few months prior for a similar violation you had better believe you are getting a citation. The number one job of a police officer is to read people. With experience an officer can read someone in a very short amount of time (such as the first contact at a traffic stop). An officer who blatantly makes out a ticket with incorrect information is either overworked/tired or giving a break. I am not saying the officer in the this case was doing so. A verbal warning would do nothing however a written citation allows for documentation in the system and will change the operators habits or give him a ticket in the future. I am not saying that alot of officers do/have done this just that I now of a few that have.

PaulFiveOh

08-25-2008, 10:17 AM

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you have one slice of factual evidence to support your claim that a non convicted charge get recorded against you?

Thats ludicrous to suspect that as fact.

thecollector

09-01-2008, 01:31 AM

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you have one slice of factual evidence to support your claim that a non convicted charge get recorded against you?

Thats ludicrous to suspect that as fact.

Your record in the NCIS is a list or CHARGES against you, not your convictions. It follows your arrest record. Here's an example: Me and some friends were down in Covington years ago hitting some bars. One of my friends (who's unit was about to get shipped out) had to urinate and he chose to do so in a parking lot. He was arrested and charged with public indecancy. At his trial his commanding officer spoke on his behalf and the charge was dismissed. If his id is run thru NCIS this shows on his arrest record EVEN THOUGH HE WASN't CONVICTED.

This is a flaw of our system that gives law enforcement a slight one up on the public.

Believe it or not I wont lose any sleep if you don't believe me. If you noticed no officers on the board disagreed or questioned me- ONLY YOU.

Ask a peace officer, or an attorney familiar with criminal law, or a prossecutor. Or plead down a DUI arrest to an OVI or wreckless op charge and you will find out for yourself when you get pulled over every FRI. or SAT. night for no real reason.....

An author has even written a book touching heavily on this subject. I Believe the title is "arrest proof yourself." It's about $10 on Amazon, but a person with the volume of life experience such as yourself wouldn't need it....

It's ludicrous to label something ludicrous that you have no knowledge about or experience with. Enjoy the book.

Black92LX

09-01-2008, 08:14 AM

Your record in the NCIS is a list or CHARGES against you, not your convictions. It follows your arrest record. Here's an example: Me and some friends were down in Covington years ago hitting some bars. One of my friends (who's unit was about to get shipped out) had to urinate and he chose to do so in a parking lot. He was arrested and charged with public indecancy. At his trial his commanding officer spoke on his behalf and the charge was dismissed. If his id is run thru NCIS this shows on his arrest record EVEN THOUGH HE WASN't CONVICTED.

This is a flaw of our system that gives law enforcement a slight one up on the public.

Actually you are incorrect. In most instances the information that one can legally receive from NCIC by their mobile data terminal or over the radio is an active NCIC hit. Which would be an ACTIVE warrant, gang activity, Emergency Protection Order, stolen vehicle, missing persons, terrorist watch list, deportation orders, amongst a few others.

One's Criminal History report which you are referring to cannot (legally) be transmitted of the radio or to a mobile data terminal.

And you are correct all charges are on the Criminal Record but they clearly state if one was convicted, dismissed, or pending.

Though there is the expungement process to get those dismissals removed.

PaulFiveOh

09-01-2008, 08:29 AM

thecollector:

Didn't mean to come off so harsh, I was just waiting for a little clearer explanation.

95redstang

09-01-2008, 11:48 AM

Actually you are incorrect. In most instances the information that one can legally receive from NCIC by their mobile data terminal or over the radio is an active NCIC hit. Which would be an ACTIVE warrant, gang activity, Emergency Protection Order, stolen vehicle, missing persons, terrorist watch list, deportation orders, amongst a few others.

One's Criminal History report which you are referring to cannot (legally) be transmitted of the radio or to a mobile data terminal.

And you are correct all charges are on the Criminal Record but they clearly state if one was convicted, dismissed, or pending.

Though there is the expungement process to get those dismissals removed.

Ok since you are an officer of the law, I want your opinion on how to get this dropped or reduced so I don't get the points...Like I said the ticket says driving in a hazard lane, and the charge is driving on the wrong side of the road. Is that different? Will they throw the case out if it is different? I still believe I didn't go through the lane. I don't understand how he could have seen it if he was 100-150 feet in front of me. Rear view mirrors are a little tricky sometimes. Does he have to have actual proof that I did it and not just his word?

Black92LX

09-01-2008, 06:30 PM

Ok since you are an officer of the law, I want your opinion on how to get this dropped or reduced so I don't get the points...Like I said the ticket says driving in a hazard lane, and the charge is driving on the wrong side of the road. Is that different? Will they throw the case out if it is different? I still believe I didn't go through the lane. I don't understand how he could have seen it if he was 100-150 feet in front of me. Rear view mirrors are a little tricky sometimes. Does he have to have actual proof that I did it and not just his word?

Shoot me a PM with as much description of the interchange there. What you were doing, what other traffic was doing, what the officer was doing/ where he was sitting and I will let you know my suggestion/s.