Fighting a ticket...

[Waffles]

A couple of weeks ago I got a ticket in Grant county for Improper Start and Careless Driving. I was sitting at a light right next to a friend of mine in a 98 GT. Another friend of mine was directly behind me. At the light, my friend and I were talking between cars with the window down. We were going to get something to eat (all 3 cars) together.

When the light turned green, my friend next to me dumped his clutch and busted the tires loose. He grabbed 2nd and pulled out at least 2 car lengths from me. Now, my clutch was on it's last leg and I could barely even shift my car. The last thing I was going to do was break it the rest of the way just for a basically stock GT. I didn't get on it, but pulled on away from the intersection.

About 10-15 seconds later I see blue lights in the lane next to me, and then pull in behind me. I was getting pulled over. I pulled off into the resturant parking lot, where we were headed anyway. My friends pulled in behind me and parked. The cop was furious. He immediately began telling me how "smart" I was and asked for my license and insurance etc. I decided I'd be better off just to stay as quiet as I could and keep my responses to "yes sir" and "no sir."

He wrote me for Improper Start and Careless Driving. He actually ended up writing my friend too for the same charges. On the description of the violation on my ticket, he wrote that he'd been directly behind me and I'd done a burnout when the light turned green. He'd asked me about it and I said, "I never spun my tires and I never exceeded the speed limit... " and even explained that my clutch was so far gone I probably couldn't have done a burnout. I now have receipts for the purchase of the new clutch.

On my friends ticket, he wrote that he was directly behind the other car and wrote that we were racing. Several other small facts didn't match up. I also went back to the intersection and took pictures. The lane I was in is normal, but the lane my friend was in has black marks for 20-30 feet. My 3rd friend, who was actually behind me will testify I didn't spin.

I've decided to fight the ticket, obviously. What I'm wondering is if anyone has any experience fighting traffic tickets. I'll need to find the local rules for Grant County court. I also need to find out how to file motions for discovery etc and if jury trials are allowed for traffic tickets.

If anyone can help, please let me know.

[PaulFiveOh]

You won't need/want to mess with a Jury trial.
A judge hearing the case is fine.

Find out if the ticket is going to be heard in "police court" (no prosecutor), mayors court, or Municipal court and then PM me. I can get you through most all of it.

[Waffles]

I guess I should have mentioned that Grant County is in KY. There isn't a seperate traffic court, etc. Traffic violations are heard right along with everything else.

[smoker]

yea it sucks, i tried to fight a ticket earlier this year. i got pulled over for not stopping long enough at a stop sign. anyway i thouoght it was bs so i tried to fight it and all i got was they knocked it down to a non moving violation, fined me for improper equipment. which is the same money as running a stop sign. the bullshit about it was, i did stop, they knew i stopped. it just wasnt long enough in the cops eyes. but the girl that went up before the judge in front of me was known to them as a drug user, been in the system since she was 11 years old, she got busted coming out of a dealers house, getting into her car and getting pulled over with weed in the car....no fine whatsoever. she just had to attend some drug education classes.

[Steves LX]

A couple of weeks ago I got a ticket in Grant county for Improper Start and Careless Driving. I was sitting at a light right next to a friend of mine in a 98 GT. Another friend of mine was directly behind me. At the light, my friend and I were talking between cars with the window down. We were going to get something to eat (all 3 cars) together.

When the light turned green, my friend next to me dumped his clutch and busted the tires loose. He grabbed 2nd and pulled out at least 2 car lengths from me. Now, my clutch was on it's last leg and I could barely even shift my car. The last thing I was going to do was break it the rest of the way just for a basically stock GT. I didn't get on it, but pulled on away from the intersection.

About 10-15 seconds later I see blue lights in the lane next to me, and then pull in behind me. I was getting pulled over. I pulled off into the resturant parking lot, where we were headed anyway. My friends pulled in behind me and parked. The cop was furious. He immediately began telling me how "smart" I was and asked for my license and insurance etc. I decided I'd be better off just to stay as quiet as I could and keep my responses to "yes sir" and "no sir."

He wrote me for Improper Start and Careless Driving. He actually ended up writing my friend too for the same charges. On the description of the violation on my ticket, he wrote that he'd been directly behind me and I'd done a burnout when the light turned green. He'd asked me about it and I said, "I never spun my tires and I never exceeded the speed limit... " and even explained that my clutch was so far gone I probably couldn't have done a burnout. I now have receipts for the purchase of the new clutch.

On my friends ticket, he wrote that he was directly behind the other car and wrote that we were racing. Several other small facts didn't match up. I also went back to the intersection and took pictures. The lane I was in is normal, but the lane my friend was in has black marks for 20-30 feet. My 3rd friend, who was actually behind me will testify I didn't spin.

I've decided to fight the ticket, obviously. What I'm wondering is if anyone has any experience fighting traffic tickets. I'll need to find the local rules for Grant County court. I also need to find out how to file motions for discovery etc and if jury trials are allowed for traffic tickets.

If anyone can help, please let me know.


PM me your email address. I have some info that may or may not help you with this case. If it doesn't help you with this one it should help you on speeding tickets in the future. Hopefully you don't ever have to use it but its pretty good stuff coming straight from a state trooper.

[Waffles]

PM sent, thanks

You know, I really begin to wonder what cops actually do other than write tickets (yes I know I'm generalizing and some cops actually do a good job.) They can't protect. They're purely reactive. I'm responsible for protecting myself and my family. I can't imagine how they "serve" unless they mean paperwork, and I'm pretty sure the Sheriff's Dept does that.

It really pisses me off though. This cop, after he asked me why I'd done the burnout, got pissed when I told him I didn't know what he was talking about. He started threatening me with more and greater charges if I didn't admit to what I'd done.

I just said, "Sir, I'm not trying to argue with you but I don't know how else to answer so I think I'll just sit here and keep my mouth shut." I think that pissed him off even more.

[PaulFiveOh]

K NM then...

Good Luck, You'll need it.

[PONYGRL]

Ouch!! The cops out there suck... My boyfriend's grandparents live out there and I've heard stories. I don't have any advice, but really hope you get it straightened out.

[95turbocharged]

I tried to fight a reckless driving ticket and had no luck at all I fought it from sept 07 til may 08 in and out of court, I wanted a trial which I didn't get I tried to get audio and video from the copcar. the judge looked at the county atty. and said we will just move foward with the officers written statement and gave me the choice off pleding guilty and having my shit suspended for 30-90 or pled guilty and go to traffic school. no matter what I said or did I could not get it reduced or thrown out, the damn cop never once showed up for court I went 7 damn time and got stuck paying 138.50 court cost and a 15.00 for traffic school. so good luck in nky they are getting tough on everything related to street racing, burnouts, ect. If the officer said he seen you then its not going to matter if your friends say you didn't they will believe the officer.

[92BlackStang]

I tried to fight a reckless driving ticket and had no luck at all I fought it from sept 07 til may 08 in and out of court, I wanted a trial which I didn't get I tried to get audio and video from the copcar. the judge looked at the county atty. and said we will just move foward with the officers written statement and gave me the choice off pleding guilty and having my shit suspended for 30-90 or pled guilty and go to traffic school. no matter what I said or did I could not get it reduced or thrown out, the damn cop never once showed up for court I went 7 damn time and got stuck paying 138.50 court cost and a 15.00 for traffic school. so good luck in nky they are getting tough on everything related to street racing, burnouts, ect. If the officer said he seen you then its not going to matter if your friends say you didn't they will believe the officer.


If the officer said he seen you then its not going to matter if your friends say you didn't they will believe the officer

[Katmandu]

This cop, after he asked me why I'd done the burnout, got pissed when I told him I didn't know what he was talking about. He started threatening me with more and greater charges if I didn't admit to what I'd done.

I just said, "Sir, I'm not trying to argue with you but I don't know how else to answer so I think I'll just sit here and keep my mouth shut." I think that pissed him off even more.Not much worse than a cop that can't control his own emotions and his a big ego.

You "may" want to consider all (3) of you guys going to the Sheriff and filing a formal complaint on this Officer.

Who knows, the Sheriff just "may" be looking for a good excuse to get rid of a BAD Troop ?

I used to work with the OSP and I know the OSP Brass does NOT tolerate Unprofessional conduct from the OSP Troopers! The Post Commanders take formal complaints very very seriously.

Having said that, dealing with small town Departments is a completely different matter.

It's worth a shot IMHO. You guys have a huge advantage. 3 Witness Vs 1 manic cop.


.

[PHAT69AMX]

If you don't speak up and at least try, you have no chance of beating it at all.
Use every venue and process you can as suggested if you have the time.
Will cost you alot more than just the bs ticket in Insurance for the next few years.
And hell in todays world, could cost you on a job search even.
My opinion is it's all about generating money for the local community, & "rehab" program.
Those "sensitivity classes" for "violent offenders" are exspensive.

[99Slobra]

i'd lawyer up.

[Waffles]

It was a KSP cop. I called my lawyer after court this morning. He won't charge me to fight it, except I'll have to buy the beer next time... but I don't like to abuse the friendship. He's going to at least help me file motions etc, then maybe show up at the trial if he needs to. I'll be filing motions for discovery, specifically requesting any video or written notes from the stop. I'll file a motion to dismiss every time the prosecution drops the ball. I'll ask for as many continuances as I can, and push for trial every time the cop doesn't show up.

I may even depose the cop...

Q: How was your relationship with your mother? Because my relationship with her is great!

[95turbocharged]

: How was your relationship with your mother? Because my relationship with her is great!

thats a good one tell him it was a stangbangerz choo choo that put his mom on her back!!!!

[Waffles]

lmfao @ SBZ choo choo

[Waffles]

Well, I just thought I'd mention that I won in court today. :)

[satan jamez]

Right on!! Was is easy or what?

[02mingryGT]

:bigthumb

Way to beat the man Hardcore!

[HDmstng]

Well, I just thought I'd mention that I won in court today. :)

How did it happen?

[djom1cincy]

Sweet. A small win for the people.

[Waffles]

Well, the original situation was a little more complicated, as you might have read in Paul's thread about self-litigation. When I was pulled over, my license was suspended unbeknownst to me and I went to jail. The trooper charged me with Driving While Suspended, Failure to Surrender a Suspended License, Improper Start, and Careless Driving.

So I made several calls to the prosecuters office, which he would not respond to. Eventually his secretary said that he wouldn't talk to me outside of court, to which I responded, "If I had an attorney, he'd speak with my attorney. I am representing myself and I expect to be afforded any courtesy he would afford an attorney." He later called me back and explained that he would only discuss the case with me if I was unrepresented and had no plans to become represented. I responded that I would have no idea about my plans for representation until I'd heard the recommendation of the prosecution. So we got the ball rolling.

We discussed the details of the case, in which I explained I had 3 witnesses willing to testify in my behalf, one of them being the other driver. I also explained the differences between the notes on the two tickets, and that he'd claimed 2 different things for each. I told him that I was willing to plea to an ammended charge of No Ops in Possession, a non-moving violation that only carries a fine, to which he agreed since I'd gotten my license and it was suspended for a clarical error. He agreed to merge the two charges, Careless Driving and Improper Start, together since they were essentially two charges for the same violation.

I told him I wasn't sure I was willing to plea on the Careless/Improper Start since I was not guilty of that at all. He said essentially that I could plea to both, or neither. If I didn't plea on the moving violations, he would seek 6 months suspension for the Driving On Suspended. I thanked him for his time and told him I'd consider his offer.

I showed up prepared and ready to try the case today, even without my witnesses. I figured I had enough with the differences in the tickets etc to show the cop didn't really even know what he was talking about. The judge asked me if I was ready to proceed to trial and I said, "Well your honor, I guess that depends on the prosecution's willingness to merge all the charges and allow me to plea to the ammended No Ops in Possession charge. It would certainly save us all valuable time as I have no intention of just rolling over on this."

The look on the prosecuter's face was priceless. He looked absolutely exasperated. He looked at the judge and said, "Your honor, he called and left me 10 voicemails and sent me twice as many emails. I have no doubt he'll draw this out as long as he can. I'm willing to merge the charges and allow the plea." Deal done.

I paid $100 fine plus court costs. No points, no suspension, no moving violations added to my record, no driving school, no increase in insurance, and about 1/3 of the fine. I was grinning ear to ear. :D

[ADaughen]

AWESOME!

Driving under suspended license up here landed me in hand cuffs (and almost a weekend in jail). It was a DMV clerical error, too. :mad:

[Waffles]

Isn't that a bitch? They don't even give you an apology when it's their fault.

[wolverine8490]

I was pulled over once by a Covington cop and harassed for over an hour and a half in my M3. Said I ran from him the night before and all kinds of BS. I kept telling him I had not been through that part of town the night he said I ran from him. He even had me rev my car up twice with anothe rofficer standing around. It was crazy. Said he had me on video and everything. Once I told him I wanted to see the video, he then cited me for "glaring headlights" (said it was against the law to drive with fog lights on), failure to update my liscense with the DMV, and failure to update my registration with the DMV. It also stated that I was originally pulled over due to my liscense plate cover being dirty.

Of course, nothing was on the ticket about how I "supposedly" ran from him the night before.

Needless to say, I had everything updated before the trial so they threw all of that out. Then the judge actually blasted the cop for writing me a ticket for glaring headlights. I think the judge was just as pissed as I was for wasting his time. I walked out without paying a dime.

But then the SOB cop came after my wife, citing her for expired tags, which wernt expired. Took that up with the cheif of police of covington, which he took care of. Then about a month later, he cited her for parking the wrong direction on out street.

I gave up the fight on the parking the wrong direction, but I called everyone in the city of Covington up to the mayor and told them they had better get this guy off my back before they had a lawsuit on their hands. Needless to say, I have never seen Officer Brown since.

Still gets me worked up thinking about it to this day. Some cops are cool, but there are soom @ssholes out there too.

Anyway, good deal with your case. Glad to see the system does work sometimes.

[Katmandu]

Congrats on the BIG win! :bigthumb


I was pulled over once by a Covington cop and harassed for over an hour and a half in my M3. Said I ran from him the night before BMW M3's are BADASS! :bigthumb

They WILL easily out run any P71 (Crown Vic Police Interceptor). I know first hand that they will.

I was driving my old 93 P71 into work one morning when I came up behind my co-worker in his 96 M3. I pulled up beside him (going 60 MPH or so) and hammered it. He left me there like I was standing still !!

BTW, I just bought a BMW myself last week. :bigthumb Not an M3 (yet), but did get a sweet 318i Series.

[Waffles]

I know a few cool cops. There really are some good ones out there, no matter how frusterated I get with that particular profession at times. However, I think because of the power that comes along with the job, it tends to attract the wrong kind of people. It's those people that give a bad name to the rest.

I had a Kenton Co cop teh other day say to me, "You hired me to watch people, don't get pisses just because you're the person I'm watching." Now, the first thing I'll say is that there is no way in hell he believes that he works for me, the citizen. That's just bullshit. Also, if I'd hired him to do anything, it wouldn't be to write people tickets for stupid shit or abuse their power by harassing people.

I see cops regularly walk into the local convenience store and get their "free" coffee and donuts. They just get their stuff, and walk right out the door. There was a cop that pulled my sister over just to ask her for her phone number. I begged her to file a complaint but she didn't want to start trouble. The sad part is, it's not the first time it's happened to her, and I know of other people it's happened to as well. I've heard cops talk about what they get away with. I've heard about what their families get away with. I've been pulled over by a cop who's girlfriend I pissed off. I've seen cops just cruise 80mph in the fast lane on their way home, out of their jurisdiction, when you know sure as hell he'd write you a ticket for the same thing. I just think it's a bunch of crap.

[mustangjon]

here is funny short story about cops/people getting away with stuff.. as most ya know i moved back here little over a year ago. I lived in a town called stamping ground... it has always had 1 cop, the police chief, rest was done by constables and county boys. well town is less than 1000 pop. So if you think about it take the volunteer fire dept, the city council, ect all the towns "officials" and their families that = large percent. Well anyhow they decided to hire another officer to help in policing speeding through town, ect the petty stuff basically but kids are on the streets ect. So I know the guy that gets job.. within 6 months he was "let go" because he had been writing tickets as they asked, only problem apparently most the violators were the city "officials and family" and he would still give them tickets :lol::lol::lol:

[Katmandu]

I know a few cool cops. There really are some good ones out there, no matter how frusterated I get with that particular profession at times. However, I think because of the power that comes along with the job, it tends to attract the wrong kind of people. It's those people that give a bad name to the rest.I couldn't agree more.

I worked with the Ohio State Patrol for several years and you wouldn't believe what you see when you wear the uniform. :rolleyes: The OSP is extremely Professional Organization (for the most part). However, there's a couple incidents that Witnessed that I best not repeat in Public.

It's highly advised that Troopers do NOT engage in the Free Coffee/Donut venture. The Brass frowns highly on it. Gives a very bad image.

I can honestly say this about my (8) years Patrolling with the OSP. I have never witnessed an OSP Trooper getting "Out-of-Line" or act in an Unprofessional manner with anyone from the General Public. NEVER. They were always the up most Professionals when performing their duties.

That said, I did witness Officers from other Agencies act like Hardcore described.

I do remember one incident where a Trooper and I were sitting Stationary along I-75 shooting radar. The Trooper clocked an oncoming car at 86 MPH. As he started to pull out to chase the Speeder down, it quickly came apparent the it was ANOTHER Crown Vic Police Interceptor. It was painted in a scheme from nothing from our area. As it flew by us, I saw it was actually out of Michigan.

The Trooper never went after him and let the incident go.

I thought that was a pretty fugged up thing for the Michigan cops to do. Extremely disrespectful of any laws. :rolleyes:

[mustang8998]

The Trooper never went after him and let the incident go.

I thought that was a pretty fugged up thing for the Michigan cops to do. Extremely disrespectful of any laws. :rolleyes:

I would call that "out of line", on the part of both officers.

[Katmandu]

I would call that "out of line", on the part of both officers.I told the young Trooper to get on CH 9 (CB) and ream his ass out at least. :rolleyes:

He was just out of "Cub" status (OSP Rookie Probationary status) and basically afraid to get into trouble. :rolleyes:

[Black92LX]

I know a few cool cops. There really are some good ones out there, no matter how frusterated I get with that particular profession at times. However, I think because of the power that comes along with the job, it tends to attract the wrong kind of people. It's those people that give a bad name to the rest.

I had a Kenton Co cop teh other day say to me, "You hired me to watch people, don't get pisses just because you're the person I'm watching." Now, the first thing I'll say is that there is no way in hell he believes that he works for me, the citizen. That's just bullshit. Also, if I'd hired him to do anything, it wouldn't be to write people tickets for stupid shit or abuse their power by harassing people.

I see cops regularly walk into the local convenience store and get their "free" coffee and donuts. They just get their stuff, and walk right out the door. There was a cop that pulled my sister over just to ask her for her phone number. I begged her to file a complaint but she didn't want to start trouble. The sad part is, it's not the first time it's happened to her, and I know of other people it's happened to as well. I've heard cops talk about what they get away with. I've heard about what their families get away with. I've been pulled over by a cop who's girlfriend I pissed off. I've seen cops just cruise 80mph in the fast lane on their way home, out of their jurisdiction, when you know sure as hell he'd write you a ticket for the same thing. I just think it's a bunch of crap.

At least you understand it is not all of them. Lots of people have trouble with that.
I'll be the first to admit there are bad cops out there but they are the minority.

[Waffles]

I wish it was the minority. I know that, being a cop, you need to believe that, and that's completely understandible. I know that I didn't just get this opinion by running into one or two bad eggs. You seem like a cool guy, and if you're a good cop too.. I thank you for that. However, it would take a lot to convince me that it wasn't just an extreme majority that are dicks.

[Black92LX]

I wish it was the minority. I know that, being a cop, you need to believe that, and that's completely understandible. I know that I didn't just get this opinion by running into one or two bad eggs. You seem like a cool guy, and if you're a good cop too.. I thank you for that. However, it would take a lot to convince me that it wasn't just an extreme majority that are dicks.

Being that are about 600 some officers on the department I work for and I can name maybe 3 that i believe shouldn't be officers and maybe 20-30. That I don't agree with their way policing. That is far far from the majority. And everyone has a different of ideas what is OK and what is not. Personally I don't curse at people (I have in 2 cases and felt bad for it but) others feel it is ok.

Bad cops are the minority. It does not seem that way because the police rarely get press for doing something good and that's fine (because it's our job). But bad press gets rolled left and right.

Sadly in my job I am going to piss people off it comes with the territory. I have my share of complaints but all have been ruled unfounded. I especially liked the complaint where I tased a guy and then stabbed him in the head. Yet I hadn't been issued a Taser nor did the fella have a stab wound. Yes the young man met my baton a few times but all was with in my response to resistance requirements.

But also being a "dick" does not make one a bad cop. I have been called that and much worse many many times. Sometimes there is just no playing around or cutting breaks.

I am there to do a job and that is what I am going to do. If it makes people unhappy so be it.
If you want to get upset that Speedway lets me have a drink for free take it up with Speedway it's their property to give away to who they want.

You listed quite a few negative run ins with the police and that is sad. I had my share of run ins with the police prior to becoming an officer and I only had 1 negative occurrence.
Bad police are out there just like every other occupation but it is the minority.
The police are not inherently evil.

Are there times where things are done wrong, absolutely. But that is why we have a court system. If I smell something wrong I will be the first to give suggestions as to what to do.
PaulFiveOh hopefully would attest to that. We had some PM conversations during his little court incident. I gave him some open and honest suggestions. I won't always side with the police there are times where they are flat out wrong and I will be the first call it out if I feel it as such.
Anytime anyone on here wants advice I will gladly give my suggestion and I always encourage folks to go to court if they feel that something is not correct. That is what our court system is set up for.

[PaulFiveOh]

When I leave my office downtown, I routinely will tail cops leaving the courthouse on to 71 and just sit about 100 feet behind them as they weave through traffic at 75 in a 55, of course I back off once we get any where near their jurisdiction.

I even had a Mt. Healthy officer brake check me...heh heh. I'm such a punk lol

[Katmandu]

At least you understand it is not all of them. Lots of people have trouble with that.So true. I'll go there and say the African American community obviously has the most distrust of cops.

This is due to Ignorance on BOTH sides of the fence.

[Waffles]

Being that are about 600 some officers on the department I work for and I can name maybe 3 that i believe shouldn't be officers and maybe 20-30. That I don't agree with their way policing. That is far far from the majority. And everyone has a different of ideas what is OK and what is not. Personally I don't curse at people (I have in 2 cases and felt bad for it but) others feel it is ok.

Bad cops are the minority. It does not seem that way because the police rarely get press for doing something good and that's fine (because it's our job). But bad press gets rolled left and right.

Sadly in my job I am going to piss people off it comes with the territory. I have my share of complaints but all have been ruled unfounded. I especially liked the complaint where I tased a guy and then stabbed him in the head. Yet I hadn't been issued a Taser nor did the fella have a stab wound. Yes the young man met my baton a few times but all was with in my response to resistance requirements.

But also being a "dick" does not make one a bad cop. I have been called that and much worse many many times. Sometimes there is just no playing around or cutting breaks.

I am there to do a job and that is what I am going to do. If it makes people unhappy so be it.
If you want to get upset that Speedway lets me have a drink for free take it up with Speedway it's their property to give away to who they want.

You listed quite a few negative run ins with the police and that is sad. I had my share of run ins with the police prior to becoming an officer and I only had 1 negative occurrence.
Bad police are out there just like every other occupation but it is the minority.
The police are not inherently evil.

Are there times where things are done wrong, absolutely. But that is why we have a court system. If I smell something wrong I will be the first to give suggestions as to what to do.
PaulFiveOh hopefully would attest to that. We had some PM conversations during his little court incident. I gave him some open and honest suggestions. I won't always side with the police there are times where they are flat out wrong and I will be the first call it out if I feel it as such.
Anytime anyone on here wants advice I will gladly give my suggestion and I always encourage folks to go to court if they feel that something is not correct. That is what our court system is set up for.

MOSTLY it's not the job, it's the people in it. Some of it IS the job. It's almost like, the only people that should be cops are people that wouldn't like being cops. Kinda like in Gladiator when Marcus Aurelius tells Maximus it must be him that takes his place, because he didn't want it. Or, in The Dark Night, when Bruce Wayne gives Lucas Fox control to spy with the cell phone hack, because he knew Lucas didn't believe in it, thus wouldn't abuse it.

But seriously, I guess it's part of the job to ticket those terrible, horrible people that speed 5mph over. Or, what about those REAL bad people, the ones who let their tags expire by two days. I mean shit, what are these people thinking? Worse yet, when people move and it takes them longer than 2 weeks to change their license. Come on now, moving isn't that big a deal and, changing your license should be your FIRST priority. Who cares if you have utilities turned on or your underwear unpacked yet.

I had some stupid (on my part) tickets when I was younger, like a 115 in a 45 (my all time best). But in the last 10 years, they were all something like mentioned above. And, there are quite a few. So many, that the prosecuter in this last case even mentioned something about how many there were, and how they were all so incredibly insignificant he didn't even understand why I'd gotten them in the first place. (I bet he doesn't say that when he prosecutes similar tickets.) But hey, I'm certainly glad those cops were out there doing "their job" cleaning scum like me off the streets. Lord knows, I should be right at the top of their priority list and they have nothing more important to do.

The line in your sig is a slight uncredited misquote of G. Gordon Liddy's "A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." Know what else he said? He said that traffic cops were nothing but tax collectors.

[Waffles]

Oh, I should add... that ticket where I got a 115 in a 45...

I was coming off 275 west bound and took the AA exit in Wilder. As the exit circled back under the expressway and I attempted to merge, a white Lumina cut me off. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and when the guy in the Lumina was shaking his fist at me and screaming out the window, I reacted foolishly. I flipped him the bird, downshifted and stomped on the gas. I was going probably 65 or 70 in the 45 zone. To my surprise however, the guy who'd been screaming and shaking his fist was now right behind me. I kept seeing him lean over into the passenger side of the car, and I kept thinking, "Oh my God this guy is getting a gun and he's gonna shoot me!"

The guy chased me all the way to Village Green. Trying to make my turn, he missed and ran his car into the ditch on the opposite side of the road. At this point, I'm thinking, "Where is a cop when you need one!?!?!"

I finally stopped in the parking lot, resolving to having to be shot by this guy, or kick his ass right in the parking lot in front of Steinberg's. He slid into the spot next to mine. When he got out of his car, the thing I expected the least happened - he flashed his badge at me. Alas, the cops had showed up to save me from this raging psycho chasing me 100mph+ down the AA. :lol: The whole time, it was a police detective in an unmarked white Lumina. I got the opportunity to look into his car, and saw what he was doing leaning over in the passenger seat. He'd actually taken the blue lights that had been in his dash, and put them in the floorboard. Now, I wonder why he would have done that?

I was mailed a ticket. (Being a detective, I guess he didn't have his ticketbook with him). I showed up in court and told the judge what had happened. I told him I was afraid for my life and ran from "some guy screaming and shaking his fist out the window." I told him about the blue lights that had been removed from the detective's dash and placed in the floorboard. It turned out, that the detective never made a call on his radio to report the pursuit. He didn't have a radar, laser, or calibrated speedometer to verify my speed. I was convicted and my license was suspended for 12 months. Happy days and thank God he was keeping our streets free of criminals.

[Black92LX]

I guess it's part of the job to ticket those terrible, horrible people that speed 5mph over. Or, what about those REAL bad people, the ones who let their tags expire by two days. I mean shit, what are these people thinking? Worse yet, when people move and it takes them longer than 2 weeks to change their license. Come on now, moving isn't that big a deal and, changing your license should be your FIRST priority.

Well those things have never fallen into job description I have read for a police officer. I have written maybe 10 speeding ticket in a 2.5 years. All have been doing at least 15 miles over (or 10 in a school zone)
Tags I generally give about 4 months.
As for the change of address thing. There is a lot more too it. But I generally give a month before I arrest people for it.
And plus there needs to be more going on for me to arrest on Failure to Notify DOT.

Some people do write for these things but guess what they are not doing anything wrong by it. The law states the stipulations not the officer. If the officer wants to cut someone a break they are more than welcome too.

As for your idea that the people that need to be the police are the ones that don't want too.
The officers that don't give a shit are the worst ones out there.


He didn't have a radar, laser, or calibrated speedometer to verify my speed.
None of those are required. Officers are trained in visual estimation.
Have I written a ticket on it nope, but can it be done YES.

[Waffles]

Well, it sounds like you're a reasonable cop that probably does a decent job. I suspected you would be, just by your take on other things where you've posted.

On the last part though, are you just dropping that as an FYI or did you find no problem with the rest of the situation? I know cops can write tickets based on visual estimation, but they don't hold up 99.9% of the time. It's evidence yes, just not very good evidence and is easy to bring some doubt into the situation.

[PaulFiveOh]

I also would like to comment for the record that Black92LX represents him self very well here and I can tell he tries very hard to make it a point to separate his job from on here while still adding valuable insight.
So thanks. :)

[wolverine8490]

Congrats on the BIG win! :bigthumb

BMW M3's are BADASS! :bigthumb

They WILL easily out run any P71 (Crown Vic Police Interceptor). I know first hand that they will.

I was driving my old 93 P71 into work one morning when I came up behind my co-worker in his 96 M3. I pulled up beside him (going 60 MPH or so) and hammered it. He left me there like I was standing still !!

BTW, I just bought a BMW myself last week. :bigthumb Not an M3 (yet), but did get a sweet 318i Series.


Yeah, I loved the m3. I had a 95, so it was OBDI and the 3.0L. Had a few mods done to it. I think the best thing about it was how it pulled to redline. Never felt like it was losing power. They are best to race at higher speeds. I did actually hit 140'ish mph on 471 one day racing a spec-v. Pretty stupid really, and wont do that again on the street. I miss it, but I love the fact that I can afford mods for the mustang now. The BMW aftermarket world is crazy $$$$.

As far as running, sad thing is, I almost did take off from the cop. He was trying to be sneaky and got right on my @ss with his headlights off (10pm at night) coming up hands pike (which is a nasty hill). I did not even see him till he turned on his headlights. I actually thought it was a mustang, and had the car in 2nd before I thought "I better not as it might be a cop". Thank god that night I was being smart, or else I prolly would have gone to jail.

Congrats on the 318i. It may not be an M, but they are all great cars. Someday, I will own another, most likely an e46 m3.

[Black92LX]

Well, it sounds like you're a reasonable cop that probably does a decent job. I suspected you would be, just by your take on other things where you've posted.

On the last part though, are you just dropping that as an FYI or did you find no problem with the rest of the situation? I know cops can write tickets based on visual estimation, but they don't hold up 99.9% of the time. It's evidence yes, just not very good evidence and is easy to bring some doubt into the situation.

I agree it's not the best fashion to write a ticket, hence the reason I have never written one. If one really needs to be stopped there are plenty of reasons for a stop. My point was that it is a valid stop and officers are trained in visual estimation. If one chooses to make a stop for it they are with the legal constraints. The driver is given the opportunity in court. The police aren't perfect and they do make mistakes myself included.

As any situation the more evidence the better but sometimes you just have to go with what you have.

I got a Porsche one evening coming off an entrance ramp at approx 110. I don't have a radar unit nor was I at anywhere near his speed to pace him.
Took me quite awhile to catch him. I could have written him for speeding but As you and I both agree visual speed estimation alone is very low on the evidence list.
So I wrote him for careless driving. Had plenty of grounds for reckless ops with an arrest. But he was straight up with me on the traffic stop said he was doing about 115, very polite and there was zero traffic out.
So I cut him a break and wrote him for careless.

Now had he been a jerk, lied, acted like he did nothing wrong, or had there been traffic he would have gone to jail.
Just because someone can go to jail for it does not mean they need to. I like to work on totality of the circumstances.

[04 Venom]

I agree it's not the best fashion to write a ticket, hence the reason I have never written one. If one really needs to be stopped there are plenty of reasons for a stop. My point was that it is a valid stop and officers are trained in visual estimation. If one chooses to make a stop for it they are with the legal constraints. The driver is given the opportunity in court. The police aren't perfect and they do make mistakes myself included.

As any situation the more evidence the better but sometimes you just have to go with what you have.

I got a Porsche one evening coming off an entrance ramp at approx 110. I don't have a radar unit nor was I at anywhere near his speed to pace him.
Took me quite awhile to catch him. I could have written him for speeding but As you and I both agree visual speed estimation alone is very low on the evidence list.
So I wrote him for careless driving. Had plenty of grounds for reckless ops with an arrest. But he was straight up with me on the traffic stop said he was doing about 115, very polite and there was zero traffic out.
So I cut him a break and wrote him for careless.

Now had he been a jerk, lied, acted like he did nothing wrong, or had there been traffic he would have gone to jail.
Just because someone can go to jail for it does not mean they need to. I like to work on totality of the circumstances.

Law enforcement carries with it an element of discretion. This is a good example.