Shut up about the damn gas prices!!!

[Black92LX]

I am tired of listening to the media and the whining of everybody about gas prices.
Would people put things into freaking perspective please.
I went into Starbucks the other day and gladly paid $3.50 for the smallest Arnold Palmer (Iced Tea and Lemonade) they had. It's far less than a freaking gallon but almost the same price as gas. The place was lacking absolutely no business and plenty of people were complaining about the price of gas.
I keep hearing "Gas Crisis", "Mortgage Crisis"

SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY. We in this country have no freaking clue what a crisis is.
Get your shit together and shut the hell up.

You want to see a crisis or people that really have a governement to complain about.
Take a look at Myanmar (Burma) or whatever the hell they are calling it these days.
They just had a cyclone kill over 30,000 people and the governement is not allowing any foreign aid into the country. And any aid that does get in the governement confiscates to distribute as they feel necessary.

So get some freaking perspective and shut the hell up already. You are complaining about gas and these people can't even get a freaking Saltine Cracker to stay alive.

[YouGotJunk]

Only difference is you dont drink 25 gallons of your Arnold Palmer *iced tea and lemonade* a week do ya? The gas prices are rediculous when you have to use so much of it to get through your regular work/pleasure schedule..You cant rely on your coffee to get ya to work....or to the store...or any other daily routine you go through everday can ya??

[foxbodyfan]

Maybe you should be thankful you don't have to complain about gas prices.

[12seclx]

"Take a look at Myanmar (Burma) or whatever the hell they are calling it these days.
They just had a cyclone kill over 30,000 people and the governement is not allowing any foreign aid into the country. And any aid that does get in the governement confiscates to distribute as they feel necessary."

We'll see exactly how long that lasts.... I think I seen on the news this morning they are taking aid now... I think it's in human nature to try and survive on your own first but I knew it was total bullshit when they were refusing aid... It would be nice for once if we would step back and let some of these other countries flip the bill....

As far as the fuel prices... I can see what you're talking about... Germany/England are paying around $8.00/gallon but they have taxes involved and that's 95 octane too... (lucky b*st*rds... :lol::lol:) and they also have about .8 more liters per gallon...

I've been saying since the first of the year it will hit $5.00/gallon in the US this year.... Diesel is almost there.... Instead of the US spending money on dropping aid to foreign countries... (which does nothing but confirm we are trying to be the world police) Why don't we focus all that energy/effort towards getting an alternate fuel source? :rolleyes: Oh, because the damn gov't is too damn lazy to do anything that would help the american people..... :dunno: I just wish for once that we would sit back and let some of these countries take care of themselves..... :bigthumb

Just like the homeless and poverty stricken families in the U.S., why are we trying to help other countries when we have several problems here in our own nation?

[jlt2006]

What does complaining about gas prices do? Nothing. The louder we bitch, it does not make the price go down. Hell complaining about it doesnot make you fell any better about it. Sounds counter productive.

[DeckerEnt]

If the United States of America stopped aiding ALL the other countries of the world with food, medicine, etc etc, this world would go down the drain fast. Then people would complain that America is stingy and doesn't care. But if we keep on doling out our money, no one says a word and just asks for more. If we don't give more than last year, then they complain that we are stingy and don't care.
I wish someone would list all the aid we give out every year. I think most of us would be shocked.
Keith

[Blackout]

Venting your frustration is a key to harmony. This is a WHAT IF........People don't vent and they just start beating up execs at the fuel places or start just get getting physical when ever they don't agree with the other person.

None of us are happy because now our dollar don't stretch as far and most of us have other bills to pay, and most of us now have to completely budget gas.

[Black92LX]

Only difference is you dont drink 25 gallons of your Arnold Palmer *iced tea and lemonade* a week do ya? The gas prices are rediculous when you have to use so much of it to get through your regular work/pleasure schedule..You cant rely on your coffee to get ya to work....or to the store...or any other daily routine you go through everday can ya??

I don't use 25 gallons of gas in a week either. Hell it takes me almost 2 months if not more to use that much.

So because you use more of it it should be cheaper???? That makes no sense. It's called supply and demand. You are clearly demanding it (and willing to pay for it) so why would the price be lower?
Again I just don't understand why people feel we deserve cheap gas?????

Demand for oil is at an all time HIGH. Not only in this country but China and India. Of course gas prices are going to rise. Plus with the weakness of our dollar right now It's only going to make things worse.

Not sure if you saw this thread but it outlines things pretty well. In all reality we are not paying anymore for gas as we did in the early 80s.
http://www.stangbangerz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42899
And our consumption plus China's, and India's is far more than it was then. Plus remember Oil is a nonrenewable resource.


I think it's in human nature to try and survive on your own first but
Sadly that is not the case at least here in the United States.
Entitlement has become a HUGE problem and is a serious crutch to our society.
Just look at all the people screaming for free health care, or for the government to bail them out in the housing market, or the governement to come and lower the gas tax. Look at all the ridiculous social programs that we have set up.
We have become a Baby Bottle Society just sucking of the governement. Just expecting the governement hand out anytime something slips bad.

['92Stang]

If i'm not mistaken (Black92lx), aren't you a Kentucky P.O. who previously posted about having a vehicle provided for you to get to, and from work???

If so, are you also provided with some type of fuel card or reimbursed for any fuel you use??

Just curious, Thanks

[347sc]

So you rant about people ranting about gas prices? Makes sense. NOT

When it comes down to food or gas to get to work for some I can see why they bitch. Its not like it went up and people could afford it. Just wait until it peaks and you pay alot more for everything from food to you $3 tea.

I edited this so it would not be a pissing match for the people that base the world on their needs and wants with no reguards to the bigger picture

[Maximus]

If i'm not mistaken (Black92lx), aren't you a Kentucky P.O. who previously posted about having a vehicle provided for you to get to, and from work???

If so, are you also provided with some type of fuel card or reimbursed for any fuel you use??

Just curious, Thanks

So we are paying his high gas prices as well.:eek::lol:

[Paul408Notch]

Point 1: Gas costs WAY more per gallon than it did 5 years ago. About double the price actually.

Point 2: I'm not making double the salary I was 5 years ago.

Summary: This gives me a right to bitch all I want about gas prices.

[cstreu1026]

I hate when people bitch about gas prices but don't a damn thing to improve their situation. There are options to take the sting out rising costs but most people are too damn lazy to put any effort in it. You can't even get people to check the air pressure in their tires. Then there are the people who choose to commute to work in a truck or SUV (my wife included) and know that their vehicle gets lousy gas mileage. You really shouldn't complain when you choose to drive a vehicle that gets 10-15 mpg especially when you don't have a need to. My wife and I are getting rid of her Grand Cherokee when the lease is up and she will be driving something that gets at least twice the mpg she gets now. And I totally agree that things could be much worse. We could easily be paying $8-10 a gallon like the rest of the world.

[347sc]

Point 1: Gas costs WAY more per gallon than it did 5 years ago. About double the price actually.

Point 2: I'm not making double the salary I was 5 years ago.

Summary: This gives me a right to bitch all I want about gas prices.


Thats why I like you Paul, straight to the point with no b.s.:bigthumb

[ricks_85_gt]

Its about to become Mad Max up in this bitch if it keeps goin the way its goin!!:AR15:

[mach_u]

Only difference is you dont drink 25 gallons of your Arnold Palmer *iced tea and lemonade* a week do ya?
Can't believe I am saying this but I agree you. It doesn't bother me a whole lot because I have a company car and the Mustang can stay in the garage if I don't want to fill it up BUT I will say it's getting ridiculous. Like Paul said, salaries aren't going up to match the difference we are paying in gas and unfortunately with gas/diesel going up, so does the price of EVERYTHING. Groceries go up, costs go up right across the board in every market because the cost to transport anything goes up. I will say one thing, I'm tired of people bitching about something and not doing anything about it. If it bothers you so much, go out and stage a damn protest or something. It hasn't truly affected my life at this point so I don't bitch about it. If it gets to the point it really does, you better believe I'll do something. If it bothers you, be proactive and DO something because complaining on a web board doesn't do jack crap! Attica! Attica! :lol:

[93cobra]

It's called supply and demand. You are clearly demanding it (and willing to pay for it) so why would the price be lower?
Again I just don't understand why people feel we deserve cheap gas?????
Demand for oil is at an all time HIGH. Not only in this country but China and India.


Just look at all the people screaming for free health care, or for the government to bail them out in the housing market, or the governement to come and lower the gas tax. Look at all the ridiculous social programs that we have set up.
We have become a Baby Bottle Society just sucking of the governement. Just expecting the governement hand out anytime something slips bad.


:agree:

im not excited about high gas prices by any means....

but that is why I chose to drive a $1500 91 toyota camry 35mph everyday even though i could afford to drive an excursion if i wanted to.

if people don't want to pay for it, don't & ride your 10 speed to work or saddle up your horse....

i remember being over in germany 7 years ago racing motorcycles & they were paying $5 (U.S. dollar) back then....

[Black92LX]

If i'm not mistaken (Black92lx), aren't you a Kentucky P.O. who previously posted about having a vehicle provided for you to get to, and from work???

If so, are you also provided with some type of fuel card or reimbursed for any fuel you use??

Just curious, Thanks

Yup and that is exactly why I chose this job over many others. But I also am well aware that I could loose that luxury at any time so I save and budget accordingly.


So you rant about people ranting about gas prices? Makes sense. NOT

When it comes down to food or gas to get to work for some I can see why they bitch. Its not like it went up and people could afford it. Just wait until it peaks and you pay alot more for everything from food to you $3 tea.

It's not just gas prices. It's the fact that people think things should be cheap or free. Currently the rage to complain about is gas prices. But if you look at the scale we don't pay very much for gas at all compared to other things.

Sometimes people have to make sacrifices. Take different jobs, do less pleasure driving, live in different areas. You just have to make sacrafices and deal with it.

I am currently building a house. Location is not where I wanted to be for my first choice. I would much rather move out of county where land is far cheaper I could have the same size house and 10 acres+ for about the same price it cost me to build here.
But I know that I would have to spend a whole lot more on gas than I do now. Do I bitch no just make adjustments and sacrifices.


Point 1: Gas costs WAY more per gallon than it did 5 years ago. About double the price actually.

Point 2: I'm not making double the salary I was 5 years ago.

Summary: This gives me a right to bitch all I want about gas prices.

So has milk, eggs, bread and so on and so forth. Don't bitch about the gas bitch to your Boss to give you a raise.


So we are paying his high gas prices as well.
We share the cost. I still have to pay taxes too. Plus I don't just get to drive around and do nothing. I still am required to respond in many situations.
Actually ends up saving the tax payers money.
I believe they estimated that our call volume would rise to the tune of approximately 6-8,000 calls a year if we didn't have take home fleet. Also for non take home fleet vehicles they generally only last about 3-4 years. We still have vehicles in service that are 10 years old.

Never said I like paying the gas prices. But the fact of the matter is that is life and we have had very low gas prices for a long time and still do.

[93cobra]

people need to get their priorities in line these days....dining out to eat mutiple times per week, spending $$ on mustang parts, expensive vacations, expensive homes.....etc...

whats a pack of cigs cost these days & how many smokers are bitching, although they smoke $200 worth of cigs a month.

again...don't like the price, don't buy it & let me know how things go....i guess you would realize it is one of the most valuable things you need to buy to make things much more convienant.

[IWRBB]

I got one nobody ever mentions. Move. Move closer to work if you plan to stay with that company. Do you really need to live so far from where you work? Besides some friends or family closeby you like, I doubt it.

I used to fill up my truck with 22 gallons of gallons every 5 days. I drove a 40 mile round trip every day. Now I can go over 2 weeks between fill ups with only a 6 mile round trip.

I also save 6 hours a week drive time now that I'm not commuting so far. I can be home and get my grass cut at my new house before I'd even get home in rush hour traffic at my old house.

If you want better mileage, do all the little stuff. Air up the tires, slow down, combine trips, use businesses where you can make right turns in and out instead of lefts, maintain your engine, take off slower from lights, reduce idle times- shut it off as soon as you pull in.

[Paul408Notch]

So has milk, eggs, bread and so on and so forth. Don't bitch about the gas bitch to your Boss to give you a raise.

1: I don't buy 20 gallons of milk, bread, and eggs a week.

2: Most of those increases are caused in one way or another by the increases in gas.

3: I'd like to see any person on this board convince their boss to double their salary because gas prices have doubled.

['92Stang]

:agree:

im not excited about high gas prices by any means....

but that is why I chose to drive a $1500 91 toyota camry 35mph everyday even though i could afford to drive an excursion if i wanted to.

if people don't want to pay for it, don't & ride your 10 speed to work or saddle up your horse....

i remember being over in germany 7 years ago racing motorcycles & they were paying $5 (U.S. dollar) back then....

I actually tried riding one of my horses to work once. The post office wasn't to happy of the thought of having one of my horses tied out side the lobby:confused:

Guess the days of the pony express are over:D

[Ryan218]

beer is cheaper then gas now aint it?

[NaomiDstangLvr]

I'm seriously thinking about getting a hybrid, I like the Escape Hybrids.

[PonymanfiveO]

I just drive off after pumping my gas.

Works pretty well without a license plate. :lol:

[NaomiDstangLvr]

I just drive off after pumping my gas.

Works pretty well without a license plate. :lol:HAHAHA! You better be careful, we know what you drive!!!! :lol::D

[Ohioace]

charter yourself a ship, go to venezuela ( 12 cents/gallon ) and buy yourself about 10,000 gallons of gas and you'll be good to go...................... man , sure would be nice to fill up the 'ol stang for about $1.68

[Black92LX]

1: I don't buy 20 gallons of milk, bread, and eggs a week.

2: Most of those increases are caused in one way or another by the increases in gas.

3: I'd like to see any person on this board convince their boss to double their salary because gas prices have doubled.

Please explain to me why buying more should make the cost cheaper for you???

Actually the vast majority for the rising food prices is that of the government and them thinking that the biofuel craze is a good idea. It aslo is having an impact creating gas prices to rise.

If one can not live on the salary they make maybe they need to find a 2nd job or analyze how they spend their money.
We live on such a credit based society. Far too many people live pay check to pay check and that is quite dangerous.
As it is proving with the amount of foreclosure (living out of their means and taking loans they never should have in the first place) and people getting so upset about the gas prices?

Again I have asked the question over and over again in every discussion I have had on this topic.

WHY SHOULD THE GAS COMPANIES CUT US A BREAK ON PRICE WHEN WE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT?????

Of course the argument is going to come but I have to have it. Maybe but we don't have to use as much as we do.

The fact of the matter is we as a society as whole have become far too dependent upon foreign oil.
We need to get our politicians to start looking into viable fuel options. No Biofuels are not viable options.

We also need to tell the tree huggers to shove it and start drilling in ANWAR and other places that we have in this country.
We also need to have people allow the oil companies to build more refineries.
It's too much of the I want to use as much of the gas as possible but don't refine it in my backyard.

It's part of the economic swing. We have had an absolutely booming economy for the past years and many folks have gotten very comfortable and didn't plan for the future. We are in a slow down state and for some people it's really going to be rough for a while. But the dollar will gain value, the economy will rebound, gas prices will lower, and we will even find better ways to fuel our vehicles.

It's all about priorities.

[Mista Bone]

If the rise in fuel prices hasn't greatly effected you, you can afford gas in your guzzler, then STFU.

But if your like me, trying to get back on track it FUCKING SUCKS!!!!!

Hey look, it costs me and extra $6 a day to run my route and I'm driving a freaking Civic!!!!! Thats an extra $36 a week on a route that only pays $300. My gas cost were $36/week when I started, now $72.....oh yeah lets not foriget the DOLLAR extra I get now per day. I guess my child support ended just in time...........so I can use it to pay for gasoline!!!!!!

If anyone here knows about the trucking industry, they (major companys) bid on their fuel contracts usually in Jan/Feb for the whole year. When the next round comes up, the fuel surcharges will be HUGE!

Economy was good until Bush screwed it up IMHO. But then again he's been wanting to drill in ANWAR, but is also still filling the national reserves.

Ok, so what if when were able to get plenty of oil.......how would we refine it? No new refineries built since the 70's I believe.

Me, I combine trips, no longer delivery/pickup trannys unless it in Columbus and I can pickup/drop off 3 or more at a time. I don't eat out but maybe once a week, that would be today, Saturday. When my route is over I head to the Hobby shop/track. I hit McD's for my typical order, $5.50 is it. Right now I have only one daily enjoyment left, 6 pack of beer. $3.72 with tax for a 6 pack, cheaper than a gallon of gas!

[Paul408Notch]

WHY SHOULD THE GAS COMPANIES CUT US A BREAK ON PRICE WHEN WE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT?????

What's the alternative? We can't exactly put milk in our cars. Most people can't really get to work without driving a gasoline-burning car.

I've had a long day, and have a giant headache, so there's no chance I'll be able to follow any of your jumbled points, but I'm sure I'll get to decode a few more tomorrow.

[Black92LX]

What's the alternative? We can't exactly put milk in our cars. Most people can't really get to work without driving a gasoline-burning car.

I've had a long day, and have a giant headache, so there's no chance I'll be able to follow any of your jumbled points, but I'm sure I'll get to decode a few more tomorrow.

Again you failed to answer the question. Why should the companies cut you a break when you are willing to pay the money???? What about all the years in the mid 80s to mid 90s where the oil companies were barely breaking even?

One can budget wisely and cut out other things that are less important.
Sadly in life one can't have everything they want nor are they entitled to anything.

Look at Europe they have had 4.00+ a gallon gas prices for at least a decade now.
Look at all the people that ride motorcycles everyday no matter the weather. You rarely see a truck or a V8 vehicle as someones everyday vehicle.

The consumers need to demand more fuel efficient vehicles from manufacturers. Consumers need to cut back on their usage, we as constituents need to write our legislators to write energy bills that will actually bring a long term effect.

Again it sucks we are all in the same boat. I canceled my cable to save an extra $75 a month canceled my XM subscription.
That's almost $100 a month I am banking because I know that the economy is going to be tight for a few years but we'll pull out.


Ok, so what if when were able to get plenty of oil.......how would we refine it? No new refineries built since the 70's I believe.

It was actually the 80's. And I agree we need more refineries but no one wants them in their backyard so they don't get built.
Then like I stated before the tree huggers don't want us drilling the Alaskan tundra that the lefties want to call an animal sanctuary.

We are in a down turn of the economy right now. We as a nation have been skating smoothly since the mid 80s.
Economics is a cycle just like everything else i life. There are highs and lows. It won't be low forever but you do have to wade it out.

[Blackout]

Are you all still bitching about the gas prices?????? wow. I posted my thoughts a while back, and they are still the same. Everyone who pays for there gas will have to budget there fuel into there monthly expenses just like me, until the government stands up to OPEC. Just the way it is.

Economy sucks right now and it's going to get worse for a few years.

Does anyone remember the fight that we had with the Middle Eastern Countries about them saying that they would destroy America by hurting our pockets. There gradually doing it. Now the question is what are we going to do about it?

[Flaming87lx]

FACT- 1. Oil companies are having RECORD profits.
2. OPEC has recorded the HIGHEST earnings of any SINGLE company in history. (more than Microsoft, ect.)
Now, if they are paying more to get it or make it or whatever the hell they are doing with it, then I agree they need to raise prices to compensate for the higher cost. BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM---- RECORD PROFITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The profits should be no more than normal if you only adjust the price to compensate for the higher cost. A select amount of people are putting soooo much money into there pockets that they won't even live long enough to spend it, mean while the MAJORITY of us are struggling to make ends meet. People are losing everything because of these gas prices. There are alot of people that live paycheck to paycheck BELIEVE IT OR NOT, Now, double the the amount of gas money you need to get back and fourth to work, spend ALMOST double at the grocery store than you normally do, pay your utilities (gas and electric) which have both been affected and is now higher. NOW PLEASE TELL ME WHY SOMEONE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE JUST A LITTLE UPSET AND BITCH ABOUT IT. Don't compare coffee to gas. You don't rely on coffee to get you to work, you rely on gas. If you think that the oil companies are not doing anything wrong, than you sir or maam are ignorant. I will spell it out- The prices do not need to be this high if you are banking more money than you can spend and that's what is happening with our oil companies now. They could easily lower there profit margin and extend the savings to the american people. They have given all of us something to bitch about. BLACK92LX, if you truely believe that this is all ok, then you are the minority and that should tell you something. Watch the news, 75% of us believe the gas problems is our number one problem right now, not the war, not health care!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know you personally, so I won't make no personal attacks, BUT, I would really like to!!!! Any relation to George W.

[TurboNG]

I read most of the posts and didnt see anything about how the Gas prices have affected all other living costs....... you're a jack a$$ if you think higher gas prices aren't affecting you........
Higher cost for shipping of all US goods as:
Food, Living goods, misc house-hold items......
Higher cost of gas = more cost to the producer/company they are not going to eat the cost the consumer will. The more it cost for them to get the product to you the higher the price will be. Milk is up to 3.00 a gallon in some places. Im only 26 but i remimber when it was .99 cents.......
Home heating bills are at record highes. Sure just the gas hike isn't that bad but when you pay an extra 500 a year in gas then and extra 400 for home heat then an extra 1000 for higher food prices ect. Granted those are just guesses and it could be alote worse but still it adds up....
I fully agree with pulling out of world afairs and helping Americans survive instead of other countries who just end up pissed of at us even after we help them. Survival of the fitist, just as mother nature intended.........

[Paul408Notch]

Again you failed to answer the question. Why should the companies cut you a break when you are willing to pay the money???? What about all the years in the mid 80s to mid 90s where the oil companies were barely breaking even?

What do you want me to answer? How can I NOT pay the money they're asking? It's like asking why I 'm willing to pay the electric company their money. I don't really have a choice there either. I can't exactly grow volts and watts in my backyard, just like I can't grow oil in my backyard.

If I don't pay the money, I can't go to work, and I starve. It's not a matter of being willing to do it. It's a matter of being forced to do it. I don't see what's so hard to understand there. My vehicles will not run on anything but gasoline, and neither will a majority of the vehicles out there. Don't buy gas, can't go anywhere. It's that simple.

[Black92LX]

FACT- 1. Oil companies are having RECORD profits.
2. OPEC has recorded the HIGHEST earnings of any SINGLE company in history. (more than Microsoft, ect.)
Now, if they are paying more to get it or make it or whatever the hell they are doing with it, then I agree they need to raise prices to compensate for the higher cost. BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM---- RECORD PROFITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The profits should be no more than normal if you only adjust the price to compensate for the higher cost. A select amount of people are putting soooo much money into there pockets that they won't even live long enough to spend it, mean while the MAJORITY of us are struggling to make ends meet. People are losing everything because of these gas prices. There are alot of people that live paycheck to paycheck BELIEVE IT OR NOT, Now, double the the amount of gas money you need to get back and fourth to work, spend ALMOST double at the grocery store than you normally do, pay your utilities (gas and electric) which have both been affected and is now higher. NOW PLEASE TELL ME WHY SOMEONE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE JUST A LITTLE UPSET AND BITCH ABOUT IT. Don't compare coffee to gas. You don't rely on coffee to get you to work, you rely on gas. If you think that the oil companies are not doing anything wrong, than you sir or maam are ignorant. I will spell it out- The prices do not need to be this high if you are banking more money than you can spend and that's what is happening with our oil companies now. They could easily lower there profit margin and extend the savings to the american people. They have given all of us something to bitch about. BLACK92LX, if you truely believe that this is all ok, then you are the minority and that should tell you something. Watch the news, 75% of us believe the gas problems is our number one problem right now, not the war, not health care!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know you personally, so I won't make no personal attacks, BUT, I would really like to!!!! Any relation to George W.

Record profits. Is that not what a business is supposed to do?????? Explain why it is wrong for a business to make as much money as possible. WHY??? That is the point of a business they are not nonprofit organizations they are not in business for you and never have been. They are in business to make themselves a profit. What makes you think they should make sacrifices for you?????? Where does it say you deserve cheap gas.
As I posted in the links prior.
http://www.stangbangerz.com/forums/showpost.php?p=373515&postcount=14

In that link I have listed 5 companies 4 of those 5 companies are making 20% higher in Gross Profit Percentage than the oil companies. Why are we not on a witch hunt for them? Because we live in a free market economy businesses are supposed to make money.

And clearly you have not read my posts. I never said my life wasn't effected by the gas prices.
I stated that I chose a different location to build my house because of it. I have canceled my cable and XM Radio because of it. I haven't even brought the Mustang out this summer yet because of it. Life is about priorities.
You have to make sacrifices it's that simple.
My point is if we are going to keep paying the prices why should they not charge us??? Why is that wrong???
Is it wrong for people to charge 3x the price for a Playstation 3 when they first come out. Or for Ford to add a huge dealer markup on the Cobras when they first come out???

And no there is no relation to George W. I would like to tag the twins though.


What do you want me to answer? How can I NOT pay the money they're asking? It's like asking why I 'm willing to pay the electric company their money. I don't really have a choice there either. I can't exactly grow volts and watts in my backyard, just like I can't grow oil in my backyard.

If I don't pay the money, I can't go to work, and I starve. It's not a matter of being willing to do it. It's a matter of being forced to do it. I don't see what's so hard to understand there. My vehicles will not run on anything but gasoline, and neither will a majority of the vehicles out there. Don't buy gas, can't go anywhere. It's that simple.

You can move within walking distance or biking distance to your work. You could get a motorcycle that gets 75mpg or a scooter that gets 100.

As for the electric bill. There is a lot you can do to cut down. Install fluorescents. Unplug things that aren't in use use fan instead of the A/C. Get better insulation. If you have an all electric house get gas lines run and use hybrid systems.

No one says one has to cut it out completely but we can cut down. The fact of the matter is we are not willing to as a society.

Oil is a non renewable resource. It's that simple. Of course the cost is going to keep rising especially if we keep the record amount of demands that we have for it going.

[foxbodyfan]

We should buy jump ropes and skip to work that will teach the man!!!! lol


I think I should start being a gas pimp then I can buy whatever I want.

[Flaming87lx]

BLACK92LX, Apparently you don't OWN a home and have a family. It is not easy to move,(BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY FOR ONE) unless you rent! It is not fair to your family to up root them to different neighborhood and change schools because you can't afford to drive to work. Oil companies are choosing to take advantage of a bad situation. IT'S NOT FAIR FOR COMPANY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER, WE HAVE TO HAVE GAS (THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A MONOPOLY). GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO REGULATE THAT KIND OF STUFF SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. I can't believe your defending it. YOU WOULD BE PISSED IF YOU WERE FORCED TO MOVE FROM YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WERE FORCING YOU IN IT. THIS SITUATION IS NO DIFFERENT!!!!!!!

[8banger]

BLACK92LX, Apparently you don't OWN a home and have a family. It is not easy to move,(BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY FOR ONE) unless you rent! It is not fair to your family to up root them to different neighborhood and change schools because you can't afford to drive to work. Oil companies are choosing to take advantage of a bad situation. IT'S NOT FAIR FOR COMPANY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER, WE HAVE TO HAVE GAS (THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A MONOPOLY). GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO REGULATE THAT KIND OF STUFF SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. I can't believe your defending it. YOU WOULD BE PISSED IF YOU WERE FORCED TO MOVE FROM YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WERE FORCING YOU IN IT. THIS SITUATION IS NO DIFFERENT!!!!!!!


Agree,first read his post,,reminded me of a 25 year old KID,not married,no children,and livin at home with mom...Anyone with kids and a morgage will admit this is hitting the pocket book hard...Yes,,I'd done alot of things different reducing my GAS consumption(sold my "REAL" race car,Dually truck and enclosed)(bought a cavalier(32 MPG)and a (50 MPG motorcycle)..SO MY FAMILY of 5 will have a place to sleep and things to eat....IT IS NOT FAIR for a company to take advantage of a sitiuation as this...and thats EXACTLY whats happening....Must be nice to have a company car with gas expenses paid...:flipoff:

[Sharad]

it's a monopoly/oligopoly issue. This is one case where I'm in support of government intervention.

[Black92LX]

BLACK92LX, Apparently you don't OWN a home and have a family. It is not easy to move,(BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY FOR ONE) unless you rent! It is not fair to your family to up root them to different neighborhood and change schools because you can't afford to drive to work. Oil companies are choosing to take advantage of a bad situation. IT'S NOT FAIR FOR COMPANY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE IN THE MATTER, WE HAVE TO HAVE GAS (THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A MONOPOLY). GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO REGULATE THAT KIND OF STUFF SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. I can't believe your defending it. YOU WOULD BE PISSED IF YOU WERE FORCED TO MOVE FROM YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WERE FORCING YOU IN IT. THIS SITUATION IS NO DIFFERENT!!!!!!!

Again you have failed to read my posts I guess. I never said it was effecting me. Because it is and I have already listed numerous ways that is has. My point is I have cut out many of the "pleasures" shall we call them
I don't have any kids no. But I am currently building my own house. So yes I do own one (well the bank still owns it) and rent all at he same time And I am well aware that it is difficult to move but it is not IMPOSSIBLE.

Having a family doesn't have much to do with it really. Just means you have to budget differently and your budget should be far more important than mine since you have kids to be responsible for.

It all comes down to budgeting. I find it odd that people are surprised that the cost of gas is going up.
It's only common sense. It's a non renewable resource, we are demanding more than we ever have, including other countries.

The oil industry is far from a monopoly there are tons of companies out there. And the fact that we depend on other countries for it.
The largest problem is that it is a non renewable resource we tend to keep forgetting that.

The governement has already intervened and caused some of the problems. The whole Biofuels fad is a huge part of all our problems.

And yes the governement needs to step in I agree. And that is by adopting viable energy plans that give options for the future other than oil. They tried this with biofuels but has turned into a disaster. Becoming self reliant when it comes to energy.
The governement has also destroyed the value of our dollar which is another large part of the problem.

The governement coming in and set price ceilings is nice for a little bit for the consumer but it's only a band aid.
So they lower the price by whatever means now say .30 a gallon. Well when that expires you see an automatic jump .30 cents and it makes it even more difficult for people because people get comfortable and don't plan for the future.

People have gotten comfortable with how good the economy has been since the mid 80s and they didn't save for the rainy season.
It's the same thing that happened in the time of the great depression. Is it going to get that serious this time, sure isn't but it's going to be rough for those that planned on costs staying the same for years to come.

[MADMOD]

How weird is it that someone who has the tax payers pay for his gas is telling us to quit complaining about how high gas is right now?:rolleyes:

[8banger]

"Having a family doesn't have much to do with it really. Just means you have to budget differently and your budget should be far more important than mine since you have kids to be responsible for."
Has everything to do with it..Both parents are working and barely making ends meet and then add another 100 to 200 a month in gas expenses(or more)..so, you cut out cable,,don't go anywhere ,no more vactions,dad has to work a second job and rarely ever sees his kids,all to make ends meet.(every feed 4 kids?)(how much do you spend on groceries for 1!).Because the cost of living is speeding in to warp drive and the salaries are the same with possibly no raise in wages in sight...what a life..enjoy...: :mad:

[k062693w]

Trying to explain this to him is like buying oats for a dead horse!!!!!!!!!

['92Stang]

How weird is it that someone who has the tax payers pay for his gas is telling us to quit complaining about how high gas is right now?:rolleyes:

+1...No gas bill, no insurance bill, not even a car note due every month..:confused:

[331TwistedWedge]

i drive roughly 450 miles per week, so the gas prices are slowly pissing me off as well ... i didnt read any of the other posts in this 3 page thread, but i have done a few things that have taken me from 22 mpg to 30 mpg in my 1988 nissan pickup truck ...

1 ... i slowed the hell down ... i go 60-65 mph tops!
2 ... i over inflated my tires ... my max pressure is 44lbs, im at 55lbs.
3 ... i bought a k&n filter ~ i gained 1.5 mpg.
4 ... i took off the 16" nissan xterra rims and tires for some 14" factory rims and skinny tires.
5 ... i shut my truck off at certain redlights that i know take a minute or longer to change.

i gained 8 mpg by doing little things ... thats a lot of money when gas is $3.79 and rising ...

this is a good website ... www.cleanmpg.com (im not some green / earth day nerd, but im all for better gas mileage)

[331TwistedWedge]

I am tired of listening to the media and the whining of everybody about gas prices.



i havent logged on for 3 months and i see you're still being a tool ... somethings never change :lol:

thats just a stupid rant ... try driving 2 hours to work and back each day, you would change your mind ...

[8banger]

i havent logged on for 3 months and i see you're still being a tool ... somethings never change :lol:

thats just a stupid rant ... try driving 2 hours to work and back each day, you would change your mind ...

He'll just tell ya to move closer to work...like its just that easy :rolleyes:

[boostanggt]

I don't have a family to feed or anything like that, but it has effected me as a college student. I live 22 miles away from UC. I still live at home for one reason and that is to save money. It's almost to the point where I will almost save money to live on campus. Especially when I sometimes have to make multiple trips a day. Just my 2 cents.

[92StangMan]

I'll chime in even though I am new here.

Increased gas prices has effected me a great deal. My job is based off disposable income (I'm a personal trainer) and have had many clients reduce their training in order to save gas money. Last November I was working around 35 hours a week and now struggling to get 25-28 hours, so now I am looking for a second job. I used to drive a Dodge Dakota that got ~15mpg and now have a Taurus that gets 25mpg but it's still not good enough. I drive at least 600 miles a week (200 miles a week of it is my choice since I go to London, OH to train with some guys I know). The price of food has gone up with the influence of gas prices.

Outside of food, gas, rent and utilities, I do not buy a single damn thing. Last weekend I went to go shoot pool and that was the first time I had spent money (now that I think of it I did buy a Mother's Day gift) in who knows how long -- and it was only 8 bucks.

Every month I spend ~$450 in gas and ~$250 in food. If gas were $2/gallon and food was still the same as just 2-years-ago, I would be saving $280 a month, and also pocket another $500 from clients being able to schedule more training sessions by not being constrained due to the gas pumps. That's an approximately $720 a month and over $8,500 a year.

[2-8-1]

They just had a cyclone kill over 30,000 people and the governement is not allowing any foreign aid into the country. And any aid that does get in the governement confiscates to distribute as they feel necessary.

Thats not true, they are taking aid now, and would have the entire time, they felt that they could hide the real numbers. The problem there is that Myanmar(Burma) is, and has been a hell hole for decades because of the Generals.

I understand where your coming from though, I get ~19MPG mixed, and I feel it, but I don't bitch and moan about it then pay 40 dollars for coffee at Starbucks...btw, Starbucks tastes like crap once you have had "real" coffee house coffee. I have noticed that more and more people are feeling the squeeze as I have fewer customers paying big money since it hit 3+ a gallon.

[ruby71oh]

I agree that one should not have to uproot a family just to save expenses. Have you not seen the housing market? Houses just don't sell in 3 weeks. Some because of overpricing, but I can honestly say that houses in my neighborhood have been sitting for at least a year if not longer.

And the price of gas does affect a family.
Formula per week: $25
diapers every 2 weeks: $15-$19
wipes every 2 weeks: $6.00
Baby food per week: $25

Not everyone in my family can be "cut" to save money. The cost of raising a baby isn't cheap and you can shove it up your a$$ if you want to say I could've saved money by breast feeding.

[Flaming87lx]

Ruby71oh, you go girl!!!!

[Black92LX]

How weird is it that someone who has the tax payers pay for his gas is telling us to quit complaining about how high gas is right now?:rolleyes:

Are you forgetting I am one of those tax payers??? Also being in one of the highest tax brackets, a single 1 income person. But also knowing that I may not always have this luxury I budget the expense for gas that I would use if I did not get a company car. And for the time being it gets saved away and does nothing but gain interest. Sure I could go out and buy all these expensive things I don't really need with that money but I know that something could go wrong. I could get injured at work or get sick and would be really out of luck (but again I plan for that and have different types of insurance if either of those were to happen.)


+1...No gas bill, no insurance bill, not even a car note due every month..
By the way I do have a gas bill, do have an insurance bill, and do have a car note.

But like I have stated numerous times over. It's all about budgeting. Sadly many people live paycheck to paycheck.
But what happens when that rainy season comes and you didn't bring an umbrella?

You have a housing market that is terrible and people are loosing their homes and expect the governement to bail them out.
And you have gas prices that are rising (which is common sense that they are going to rise.)

Finance is very important I wish I would have been required to take finance in High School. I never would have gone into debt like I did right out of college. Luckily I found some help and how to actually manage my finances so I will be ready for the slow economic times that we are encountering now.

Again you folks act like I enjoy paying the gas prices or the elevated food prices, I don't.
But what is one supposed to do about it. All one can really do as an individual is balance their budget differently. Make changes in their life and sacrifices.

Does it suck sure. But it's only going to get worse before it gets better. I would be willing to bet that we see $5.00 gas prices by the end of the year.

Hell Europe and many other countries have been there for a decade or more, why should be be surprised when we get there.

For those having problems with their finances check this book out
http://books.google.com/books?id=WAMEAAAACAAJ&dq=Dave+Ramsey&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3DDave%2BRamsey%26ie%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26client%3Dfirefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=author-navigational

I got myself into a bit of a financial mess right out of college. Because I had this new job and all this extra money and I was blowing it on stupid stuff and not preparing for anything. Got me hemmed up pretty quickly and luckily I found that book and I am almost completely debt free aside from the house that I am building and student loans.
Took a lot of cutting back and restraint on my part but I can defiantly say it was worth it.

[BIGRED Z]

BLACK92LX:

DUDE...CHILL No one is saying you pay less taxes. No one is arguing that oil companies are gouging us any more than what supply and demand dictates. We are a capotolist economy. We get it. No one is arguing that we need to develop other sources of fuel to decrease our oil dependence. (Go Nuclear, fuck the tree huggers, build those refineries, ...whatever...)

Jesus, lay off the evidence locker supply of crack, because that is what you sound like.

People are just angry that the paychecks they get are not equal to what they now have to spend in gas money. You say, SACRIFICE...Well, that's all well and good for those who have the room to make such sacrifices. Apparently you do. And good for you. So do I. Now.

But there was a time in the not to distant past where I would have had to sell blow jobs at the nearest truck stop to pay the gas prices demanded now. I remember one week I drove to my dad's company picnic. If I would not have won that $20 shoe toss...I would not have had gas money for that week. And that was 10 years ago, when gas wasn't a rip off.

You need to remember back to those days where you may have struggled to make ends meet. And if you didn't ever know those days....you need to STFU. Like, NOW.

But I am assuming everyone struggles at some point. Including you.

So lay off.

People are hurting. Especially those with kids, and all the places they need to be driven too. Soccor, basketball, baseball, football, and whatever else.

I don't have kids, but I went and made that sacrifice you so easily demand and bought another car. I can do that as I make sufficient enough funds to do so.

Others cannot do that as easily. So, again, layoff.

Consider yourself lucky enough to have been blessed enough to make the "sacrifices" you speak of. But also realize that others may not be so lucky or blessed as you are.

Take a leap off that high horse and take a look. This gas crap is hurting a lot of your friends. (just take a look at what most people here have to say...I assume you know and call some of us "friends") And family if I had to guess.

[BIGRED Z]

Not to mention....

But I will anyway....just cuz I can....:D And, as far as I can tell, it's still America....

NO ONE wants to hear SHIT about gas prices from someone who doesn't have to pay them in their daily job.

That right there should have been a major clue (TO YOU) that you have NO right to bitch about other hard working folks who have to pay out DAILY gas prices.

Shame on you as a person. Shame on you as a civil servant. You have failed these people on 2 counts.

And, since no one can arrest you for being inconsiderate of your fellow man, or for sheer stupidity, you owe this board an apology for 2 counts, as outlined above.

Let's hear it...

[JET50213]

I am lucky enough to be doing fairly well....for now (lots of overtime). I do however feel that the oil companies owe the consumers a bit of relief. It is irresponsible of the oil companies to continue to punish those who have made them so wealthy. They continue to achieve record profits while our economy goes down the shitter. We are all responsible for the continued success of our nation....that includes the oil tycoons. Perhaps the oil industry is trying to cash in big before the bottom drops out!?
I usually try to stay away from these political threads, but I guess we are all very interested in gas prices right now.

P.s.- Would everyone please stop giving Al Gore an audience!!!!????

[BIGRED Z]

I am lucky enough to be doing fairly well....for now (lots of overtime). I do however feel that the oil companies owe the consumers a bit of relief. It is irresponsible of the oil companies to continue to punish those who have made them so wealthy. They continue to achieve record profits while our economy goes down the shitter. We are all responsible for the continued success of our nation....that includes the oil tycoons. Perhaps the oil industry is trying to cash in big before the bottom drops out!?
I usually try to stay away from these political threads, but I guess we are all very interested in gas prices right now.

P.s.- Would everyone please stop giving Al Gore an audience!!!!????

Whereas I am all for better gas prices....If you and I were Joe Blow OIL COMPANY... would you be willing to give up your profits for the good of the general public? I think not.

Just as if you you were Joe Blow General Store back in the day of Little house on the Prarie...you're in business to make money. Period. The state of the economy is not your problem. Just because Laura Ingalls can't afford your shit doesn't mean you should lower your prices.

Just as it is not in the current day situation to the oil companies.

They have one mission. As do all corporations...to make money for their shareholders.

Study up on corporate law if you are pissed. Then do what you can to combat it.

[BIGRED Z]

And then, when you really study up and get smart,,,,quit fucking voting for the goddamn democrats who continue to perpetuate the poor economic state of the union by creating more and more "threats" to the environment...ie global warming (a complete farce) and other beauracracies in which they can take your money, pretend they are fixing the problems we face, while all along coating their pockets with their multi-level beaurocracies that all collect your dollars and do NOTHING to correct the problems they promised to fix.

WHICH WERE NOT EVEN PROBLEMS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!! QUIT BEING A BUNCH OF F'N SHEEP PEOPLE!!!!

[foxbodyfan]

I knew I liked Lori for some reason :bigthumb

[02mingryGT]

Point 1: Gas costs WAY more per gallon than it did 5 years ago. About double the price actually.

Point 2: I'm not making double the salary I was 5 years ago.

Summary: This gives me a right to bitch all I want about gas prices.

I didn't read through all the responses but your logic is flawed and here's why:

As an example; lets say you were spending $25 a week in gas five years ago and now you are spending $50. In effect your payout for gas has doubled. Now, again not knowing what you make, but lets say $500.00 a week is your take home pay. Needing to make up for the extra $25 a week you are spending you then need a 5% raise: 500 x.05=25

Less of a percentage for a larger take home amount and higher for a lower.

A long way from double.

[02mingryGT]

And then, when you really study up and get smart,,,,quit fucking voting for the goddamn democrats who continue to perpetuate the poor economic state of the union by creating more and more "threats" to the environment...ie global warming (a complete farce) and other beauracracies in which they can take your money, pretend they are fixing the problems we face, while all along coating their pockets with their multi-level beaurocracies that all collect your dollars and do NOTHING to correct the problems they promised to fix.

WHICH WERE NOT EVEN PROBLEMS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!! QUIT BEING A BUNCH OF F'N SHEEP PEOPLE!!!!

:lol: Great post! Problem is I doubt any of them actually get it.

I like to say 95% of the world is sheep and the other 5% are wolves. For a clue the sheep watch American Idol while the wolves are out learning some new shit.

[04 Venom]

And then, when you really study up and get smart,,,,quit fucking voting for the goddamn democrats who continue to perpetuate the poor economic state of the union by creating more and more "threats" to the environment...ie global warming (a complete farce) and other beauracracies in which they can take your money, pretend they are fixing the problems we face, while all along coating their pockets with their multi-level beaurocracies that all collect your dollars and do NOTHING to correct the problems they promised to fix.

WHICH WERE NOT EVEN PROBLEMS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!! QUIT BEING A BUNCH OF F'N SHEEP PEOPLE!!!!

Well if it makes you feel better to blame either political party rant on; politicians are giving you what you voted for. The Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for more than a decade, including the first 6 years of the Bush presidency. Notice much difference? By the way, if you want to bitch about taxes, the US has the lowest tax burden of any industrialized country. Try living in Canada, any country in Europe, Scandanavia or Japan. It seems that the people that want the least government are the first ones to bitch if there is a natural, or man-made, disaster and want the government to "fix it". Gas prices are hurting everyone, but did the government force people to buy SUVs? Were you demanding your elected officials to develop strategies to reduce dependence on foreign energy sources when gas was $1.50 a gallon? Did you drive the speed limit when gas was $2.50 a gallon?

[Waffles]

I've been saying since the first of the year it will hit $5.00/gallon in the US this year.... Diesel is almost there.... Instead of the US spending money on dropping aid to foreign countries... (which does nothing but confirm we are trying to be the world police) Why don't we focus all that energy/effort towards getting an alternate fuel source? :rolleyes: Oh, because the damn gov't is too damn lazy to do anything that would help the american people..... :dunno: I just wish for once that we would sit back and let some of these countries take care of themselves..... :bigthumb


The government shouldn't do anything to fix it, except stop doing things to block private industry from fixing it.


I don't use 25 gallons of gas in a week either. Hell it takes me almost 2 months if not more to use that much.

So because you use more of it it should be cheaper???? That makes no sense. It's called supply and demand. You are clearly demanding it (and willing to pay for it) so why would the price be lower?
Again I just don't understand why people feel we deserve cheap gas?????

Demand for oil is at an all time HIGH. Not only in this country but China and India. Of course gas prices are going to rise. Plus with the weakness of our dollar right now It's only going to make things worse.

Not sure if you saw this thread but it outlines things pretty well. In all reality we are not paying anymore for gas as we did in the early 80s.
http://www.stangbangerz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42899
And our consumption plus China's, and India's is far more than it was then. Plus remember Oil is a nonrenewable resource.


Sadly that is not the case at least here in the United States.
Entitlement has become a HUGE problem and is a serious crutch to our society.
Just look at all the people screaming for free health care, or for the government to bail them out in the housing market, or the governement to come and lower the gas tax. Look at all the ridiculous social programs that we have set up.
We have become a Baby Bottle Society just sucking of the governement. Just expecting the governement hand out anytime something slips bad.

You need to start posting on my site :) Compass of Mind (http://www.compassofmind.com)


Point 1: Gas costs WAY more per gallon than it did 5 years ago. About double the price actually.

Point 2: I'm not making double the salary I was 5 years ago.

Summary: This gives me a right to bitch all I want about gas prices.


it's a monopoly/oligopoly issue. This is one case where I'm in support of government intervention.

There absolutely is nothing even resembling an oil monopoly.

[04 Venom]

There absolutely is nothing even resembling an oil monopoly.[/QUOTE]

Chris,

I would agree that there is no monopoly in the classic sense of the term, since there are several companies (far fewer than 10 years ago because of the mergers, with Mobil and Exxon just being the most recent example) selling refined petroleum to the consumer. But the behavior does not display competitive forces, such as all the gas stations going up the same amount at the same time despite being owned by competing companies. The biggest problem that I see (aside from the heightened demand), is the vertical integration of the oil companies from getting the oil out of the ground, refining it and selling it to the end user. That is why the phone companies were broken up nearly 20 years ago--too much vertical integration. If the oil companies had to sell off their refinery capacity, for example, you would see an increase in the refinery capacity, though expansion, and/or the number of refineries in use within 5 years.

[8banger]

So, if the oil companys wanted to charge 100.00 dollars for a 1 gallon...."becasue they can""o.k to make a profit",,,that would be fine?The ones that aren't bitchin about the price would be I'm sure........

[Black92LX]

So, if the oil companys wanted to charge 100.00 dollars for a 1 gallon...."becasue they can""o.k to make a profit",,,that would be fine?The ones that aren't bitchin about the price would be I'm sure........

Sure but It wouldn't be at that price for very long because it wouldn't sell.

to keep it simple:
I don't bitch about the cost of gas cause I don't know how to make it.

[Black92LX]

And then, when you really study up and get smart,,,,quit fucking voting for the goddamn democrats who continue to perpetuate the poor economic state of the union by creating more and more "threats" to the environment...ie global warming (a complete farce) and other beauracracies in which they can take your money, pretend they are fixing the problems we face, while all along coating their pockets with their multi-level beaurocracies that all collect your dollars and do NOTHING to correct the problems they promised to fix.

WHICH WERE NOT EVEN PROBLEMS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!! QUIT BEING A BUNCH OF F'N SHEEP PEOPLE!!!!

defiantly agree whole heartedly. But that is only the tip of the iceberg as to the problems the democrats have created.

We have become an entitlement society thanks to all the social programs that the dems have created.
The dems give people a crutch they never feel the need to get rid of.
People now a days feel they are entitled to cheap gas, free health, and government assistance.

Guess what you are entitled to ZERO.

[k062693w]

You'll feel different about the gas prices when the Police department(if that's who you work for) has to make cut backs, And takes away your cruiser and makes you walk or ride a horse!!!!!

[Sharad]

There absolutely is nothing even resembling an oil monopoly.


I said monopoly/oligopoly.


oligopoly


Main Entry: ol·i·gop·o·ly
Pronunciation: \-ˈgä-pə-lē\
Function: noun
Etymology: olig- + -poly (as in monopoly)
Date: 1895
: a market situation in which each of a few producers affects but does not control the market — ol·i·gop·o·list \-list\ noun
— ol·i·gop·o·lis·tic \-ˌgä-pə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective


Looks like an oligopoly to me. It is an oligopoly in a sense that there are millions of cars out there that ONLY run on gasoline. We have no alternative and the producers/suppliers know that. They use that knowledge to run the prices up. There have been times in the past that the government has intervened to keep companies from basically extorting the public. While I generally feel like anything the government touches gets screwed up, I think this is one situation that warrants government intervention.

Also, several people have said if we think gas is expensive here, check it out in other countries. That statement is misleading. Yes, gas is expensive in some other countries. On the other hand, some countries pay less than the equivalent of a us dollar for a gallon of gas. Sounds good to me!

[Paul408Notch]

defiantly agree whole heartedly. But that is only the tip of the iceberg as to the problems the democrats have created.

We have become an entitlement society thanks to all the social programs that the dems have created.
The dems give people a crutch they never feel the need to get rid of.
People now a days feel they are entitled to cheap gas, free health, and government assistance.

Guess what you are entitled to ZERO.

Shocker, you rolled it into a political debate. I'm surprised it took this long.

[Mista Bone]

point-counterpoint

The oil companys, wasn't it a few years ago they were crying about loosing money at $28 a barrel? Oil was so cheap it wasn't even worth pumping for it in Texas and surrounding states. "Record Profits" but they are only making 7-10% profit. What isn't being talked about is their total gross numbers. If you did $200 BILLION worth of business in a quarter, $14 BILLION in profits isn't that much. The companys that just refine oil into gas arn't making much profit. The big companys that PUMP the oil out of the ground, ther are the ones getting rich.

OPEC for example.

Only thing the goverment REALLY screwed up was to keep giving them incentives when that money could have went to other programs like health care, or finding a better fuel.

[Mista Bone]

You'll feel different about the gas prices when the Police department(if that's who you work for) has to make cut backs, And takes away your cruiser and makes you walk or ride a horse!!!!!

Bicycle cop :)

[Black92LX]

You'll feel different about the gas prices when the Police department(if that's who you work for) has to make cut backs, And takes away your cruiser and makes you walk or ride a horse!!!!!

not really. as i have stated numerous times in this thread. I budget for gas as if I did not have the luxury.
Because I know that is exactly what it is a luxury.


On the other hand, some countries pay less than the equivalent of a us dollar for a gallon of gas. Sounds good to me!
Those are oil producing countries.

[cstreu1026]

Bitching about gas prices in times like these is kind of like walking around in a heat wave asking people if its hot enough for them.

[srootster]

Again you have failed to read my posts I guess. I never said it was effecting me. Because it is and I have already listed numerous ways that is has. My point is I have cut out many of the "pleasures" shall we call them
I don't have any kids no. But I am currently building my own house. So yes I do own one (well the bank still owns it) and rent all at he same time And I am well aware that it is difficult to move but it is not IMPOSSIBLE.

Having a family doesn't have much to do with it really. Just means you have to budget differently and your budget should be far more important than mine since you have kids to be responsible for.

It all comes down to budgeting. I find it odd that people are surprised that the cost of gas is going up.
It's only common sense. It's a non renewable resource, we are demanding more than we ever have, including other countries.

The oil industry is far from a monopoly there are tons of companies out there. And the fact that we depend on other countries for it.
The largest problem is that it is a non renewable resource we tend to keep forgetting that.

The governement has already intervened and caused some of the problems. The whole Biofuels fad is a huge part of all our problems.

And yes the governement needs to step in I agree. And that is by adopting viable energy plans that give options for the future other than oil. They tried this with biofuels but has turned into a disaster. Becoming self reliant when it comes to energy.
The governement has also destroyed the value of our dollar which is another large part of the problem.

The governement coming in and set price ceilings is nice for a little bit for the consumer but it's only a band aid.
So they lower the price by whatever means now say .30 a gallon. Well when that expires you see an automatic jump .30 cents and it makes it even more difficult for people because people get comfortable and don't plan for the future.

People have gotten comfortable with how good the economy has been since the mid 80s and they didn't save for the rainy season.
It's the same thing that happened in the time of the great depression. Is it going to get that serious this time, sure isn't but it's going to be rough for those that planned on costs staying the same for years to come.



i'm sure you're in your mid-20's with no dependants. talk to me when you have mouths to feed, a mortgage, school payments etc. gas prices affect everything and if we don't bitch now and do it loud then we'll continue to take it in the rear. ever wonder why diesel costs more money lately and takes less refining? hmmm... :rolleyes: been to the grocery store lately? paid duke energy lately?

you know a few insignificant facts and are making a very broad judgement. no offense, but you're way off...

[cstreu1026]

You know bitching does nothing. Actions get results. Drive less. Consume less. Pay less. Its pretty simple. You can bitch and moan until you are blue in the face and it isn't going to do a damn bit of good as long as you are still lining the pockets of those in charge of big corporations. Until we switch a communist society or we all become smarter consumers they will continue to charge what they charge and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

[MrsAPE]

Guaranteed way to lower gas prices...fill up the tank...prices will drop the next day!! At least that's how it works for me!!

[k062693w]

You know bitching does nothing. Actions get results. Drive less. Consume less. Pay less. Its pretty simple. You can bitch and moan until you are blue in the face and it isn't going to do a damn bit of good as long as you are still lining the pockets of those in charge of big corporations. Until we switch a communist society or we all become smarter consumers they will continue to charge what they charge and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

Driving less and consuming less will do nothing about gas prices!!!!!!!
If we ( the U.S.A.) started using less gasoline the fuel/oil/gas companies will just raise the prices, and make the same record profits for doing less work!!!!

[Waffles]

There absolutely is nothing even resembling an oil monopoly.

Chris,

I would agree that there is no monopoly in the classic sense of the term, since there are several companies (far fewer than 10 years ago because of the mergers, with Mobil and Exxon just being the most recent example) selling refined petroleum to the consumer. But the behavior does not display competitive forces, such as all the gas stations going up the same amount at the same time despite being owned by competing companies. The biggest problem that I see (aside from the heightened demand), is the vertical integration of the oil companies from getting the oil out of the ground, refining it and selling it to the end user. That is why the phone companies were broken up nearly 20 years ago--too much vertical integration. If the oil companies had to sell off their refinery capacity, for example, you would see an increase in the refinery capacity, though expansion, and/or the number of refineries in use within 5 years.[/QUOTE]

Here's the real problem. Gas prices have nearly doubled since 2006 when I wrote Gas prices and retard liberal whackjobs (http://www.compassofmind.com/Forums/tabid/192/forumid/1/threadid/1/scope/posts/Default.aspx), however there has been no sign of conservation. We are still using essentially just as much fuel as we did then. If demand falls, so will prices.... and we control demand.

[cstreu1026]

Driving less and consuming less will do nothing about gas prices!!!!!!!
If we ( the U.S.A.) started using less gasoline the fuel/oil/gas companies will just raise the prices, and make the same record profits for doing less work!!!!

Even if that is true you will still have more money in your pocket. If the prices do come down then its a win win situation. You have more money in your pocket to buy cheaper gas. Actually if people would learn to drive less and consume less we all win. Less pollution, more natural resources, less dependence on foreign resources... I really don't see how that wouldn't work out to be better for the nation.

[2-8-1]

oligopoly

Actually, what we have is collusion, it, in America is VERY illegal. OPEC = huge collusion.

[Black92LX]

i'm sure you're in your mid-20's with no dependants. talk to me when you have mouths to feed, a mortgage, school payments etc. gas prices affect everything and if we don't bitch now and do it loud then we'll continue to take it in the rear. ever wonder why diesel costs more money lately and takes less refining? hmmm... :rolleyes: been to the grocery store lately? paid duke energy lately?

you know a few insignificant facts and are making a very broad judgement. no offense, but you're way off...

Well lets see here. I have a mortgage and rent both currently, I also have 4 mouths to feed if you count my fiance and dogs (one of those dogs cost $350 a month to feed). I also have school payments. And no I haven't paid duke energy but I have paid Kentucky Utilities.
Bitching does nothing. Taking action does as I have tried o state numerous times.

As for the diesel no it makes sense that it is more expensive currently. Because there is less demand so the refineries focus on refining gasoline making the supply of diesel fuel less causing it to cost more.

As for insignificant facts. Actually all the facts I brought are spot on and back up my explanations as to why gas costs as much as it does and how there are plenty of companies making even larger profit percentages than that of the oil companies.

Though of all the people bitching about gas prices.
No one not a single person has brought a single fact showing why gas prices should be cheaper than they are. Nor has anyone brought any facts to the table to refute and facts I have placed out.

Please tell me what I am way off about? Show me just one reason as to why gas prices should be lower than they are???
Please just one reason that is all I am asking.

And because the company is making a record profit is not a reason. That is the exact point of a company. To make as much as possible. They are not in business for you and I Don't know where people get the idea that they should be giving us breaks.

Were we offering to pay more for gas in the late to 80s and mid 90s when the oil companies were just barely breaking even when it came to making a profit???? I think not, so why should they charge us less now if we are going to pay for it??

[Waffles]

OPEC is not a group of companies, it's a group of countries. I'm not sure you could get them to submit to US law on that either.

[Mista Bone]

meh, I was gonna rant............but like cracker, fug it.

[HRSEPWR]

As for the diesel no it makes sense that it is more expensive currently. Because there is less demand so the refineries focus on refining gasoline making the supply of diesel fuel less causing it to cost more.


It takes more energy to more refine diesel than gasoline and these days the demand for diesel is higher than in previous years, so this is why diesel is more expensive... It still sucks as I put diesel in my Jetta, but at 45-50 mpg, in the end I'm still saving over the mustang or ranger... :bigthumb

[02mingryGT]

I said monopoly/oligopoly.


oligopoly


Main Entry: ol·i·gop·o·ly
Pronunciation: \-ˈgä-pə-lē\
Function: noun
Etymology: olig- + -poly (as in monopoly)
Date: 1895
: a market situation in which each of a few producers affects but does not control the market — ol·i·gop·o·list \-list\ noun
— ol·i·gop·o·lis·tic \-ˌgä-pə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective


Looks like an oligopoly to me. It is an oligopoly in a sense that there are millions of cars out there that ONLY run on gasoline. We have no alternative and the producers/suppliers know that. They use that knowledge to run the prices up. There have been times in the past that the government has intervened to keep companies from basically extorting the public. While I generally feel like anything the government touches gets screwed up, I think this is one situation that warrants government intervention.

Also, several people have said if we think gas is expensive here, check it out in other countries. That statement is misleading. Yes, gas is expensive in some other countries. On the other hand, some countries pay less than the equivalent of a us dollar for a gallon of gas. Sounds good to me!

Good points except the price of oil is controlled by commodity traders in New York.

[02mingryGT]

Driving less and consuming less will do nothing about gas prices!!!!!!!
If we ( the U.S.A.) started using less gasoline the fuel/oil/gas companies will just raise the prices, and make the same record profits for doing less work!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[beefcake]

3.95

i'm so sick of these money grubbing bastards

[2-8-1]

OPEC is not a group of companies, it's a group of countries. I'm not sure you could get them to submit to US law on that either.

No, we can't, and it's still collusion, substitute "company" for country, city, person, etc...

[93cobra]

wow...some people just don't get it or they seriously have been brainwashed...my opinion ....black92lx is not one of them....

if you people don't want to pay for gas, f**king don't & drill a f**king hole in your backyard, set up a refinery & make it yourself

like i said before, i spend less money on gas now driving more than i did 5 years ago but i drive a f**king gas beater camry instead of my diesel pickup

how many bitching have done something to better their cards we've been delt??

how many are still driving full size SUVs??

people don't realize how good we do have it in this country....

the oppourtunities are endless...

too many want a f**king handout...

stop bitching...do whatever it takes to make your dreams come true.... no you probably won't make it happen on your 40 hour week pay...its the time you put in outside your 40 that will make it happen...

[347sc]

3.95

i'm so sick of these money grubbing bastards

Stop your bitching!!!:lol:

[cstreu1026]

When you compare the oil price and gas prices of today to those after Katrina or this time last year we are pretty damn lucky to only be paying $3.95 a gallon.

[dedpedal]

Prices keep going up and my wallet keeps getting thinner. Id hate to see what next year brings.

[Timido]

I try not to bitch about the gas prices but it is hard not to. I have been car pooling to work. The Excursion get driven when I am towing the race car. I have cut back on the racing a little. I am only planing on running OSM and testing this year. My Honda gets 35-40mpg but it is still hard to fill it up for $40. I remember filing both tanks in my old lightning for $40

[04 Venom]

When you compare the oil price and gas prices of today to those after Katrina or this time last year we are pretty damn lucky to only be paying $3.95 a gallon.

Makes you wonder what will happen if there are several major hurricanes in the Gulf this year.

[k062693w]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff282/k062693w/gasprices.jpg

[ricks_85_gt]

gas keeps gettin higher but that still aint gonna make my lazy ass ride a bike to work, even though its just down the street. i spent $120 bucks last wednesday on gas and i just went to springfield and back. i was pissed but atleast i got my motor and 8.8, but still gas prices are a bitch and thats that!!

[Walter]

Stop bitching, yea ok. Prices increased $.60/gal since post #1.

[Gene]

Wow. I can't believe that I wasted my time reading this whole thread.

Jeremy...usually I agree with you, to an extent, but this time you're being a moron. The fact is that fuel prices are causing ridiculous inflation on goods and services that people CAN'T cut back on. Period.

I don't have to drive a lot every week, luckily. But a lot of people do, and when their cost of fuel has doubled in the last few years, without incomes going up to offset it, it hurts and it has a ripple effect through the economy. It's only going to get worse before it gets better. It's like it's 1979 all over again. At least the interest rates aren't 20% (although raising rates would strengthen the dollar, which would bring down oil prices a bit).

That being said, maybe this is the wakeup call this country needs. We've been living fat for too many years on cheap energy. I think Cameron said it best earlier:


You know bitching does nothing. Actions get results. Drive less. Consume less. Pay less. Its pretty simple.

I'm driving less. I'm commuting via motorcycle whenever possible. But it still sucks, and I'm not happy about it. I don't want to see government price controls (because that actually will make the situation worse, but I would welcome an inquiry into collusion amongst the oil companies about price-fixing. Maybe a little anti-trust action is what they need to put the fear of God into them.


Stop bitching, yea ok. Prices increased $.60/gal since post #1.

Well put.

[Blackpony]

More gas prices go up the more tempting it get to buy a new Harley

[may93]

Black92LX

If you were to check not all these other countries who pay $8.00 for a gallon of gas tax their people like we do here in the United States. Some of those countries also provide healthcare at no cost to the individual. They do so in one way by the high prices on their gas at the pumps. We already pay those taxes in more then one way so the gas shouldnt be as high as it is now. Dont be surprised when that gas that is provided for you is taken away because someone is paying for it. When and if that happens and you see how it effects your spendable money at the end of the month you might then understand. Put yourself in someones place who makes a little more then minimum wage and uses a full days just wages to pay for the gas prices that week. Why you would defend these prices is ridiculous and insulting to those that are struggling to get by. I think your entire rant was more of a way for you to make an opportunity that you could brag about how well your doing.

[8banger]

Very well said Gene..also first quarter, americans have consumed less oil (in barrels than this time last year..)...Yes..most are cutting back... will the price go down?Hell no....motorcycle sells are at an all time high...

[Mista Bone]

For once tonight, I was able to see a noticeable amount of drivers changing the habits.

Cruising at 62 in a 65 on 275, very light traffic, only one person passed me from Milford to 71N.......about 6-7 cars in the slow lane, steady pace and well spaced.

We were passed by a Milford Towing flatbed :)

I would get a scooter/moped, but idiots don't pay attention when they are pulling out, how most riders get hurt IMHO.

[Sharad]

you guys can pontificate all you want... I paid $4.15/gallon today and I am pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Sparky]

I can bitch if I want to, even if I am doing things to offset the cost. I moved to a place 5 minutes from work,use less than half a tank a week (about ten gallons), I don't make unnecessary trips,but I still cringe every time I pass a gas station sign. When the price changes like a damn stock ticker, you know somethings wrong. Its all a bunch of pencil -whippin' bullshit. You ask why should they lower the price if people are willing to pay more,but what if they weren't? Would that lower the price? I doubt it. They'll just change the rules in their favor. I'm not the smartest man in the world....but it seems that in most markets,when your a business, the more you buy, the more you expect a break in price. I mean isn't that how wal mart has cheaper groceries and merchandise than any other store of its kind? They put the squeeze on their suppliers so hard that they either go out of business or hire china or mexico to make it cheaper for them. I realize we're talking about two different products,but it seems like two different sets of rules to me. I realize companies need to make money, but when losing a couple more dollars a week means they get to make a couple billion more,not knowing what its really going towards.......yeah that kind of pisses me off. I've never been a big fan of big business, government, or organized religion. So, I have a hard time putting any faith in what they say to justify why they do stupid shit that affects me directly. Therefore, its highly unlikely that I'll ever say "okay, keep shoving that fist up my ass Mr. business man......I think you can make it a couple more inches before you bottom out.....unggghhhh!"

[Mista Bone]

I've been doing what I can to conserve, but I won't slow down in traffic and hold others up. Today a big change, people ARE slowing down.

75S from 74 to Pike/12th street, cruise was on 57 mph and no one came flying up on my ass. I need to find me a cheap Geo Metro for my courier route, 35-36 mpg isn't enough now.

[beefcake]

I can bitch if I want to, even if I am doing things to offset the cost. I moved to a place 5 minutes from work,use less than half a tank a week (about ten gallons), I don't make unnecessary trips,but I still cringe every time I pass a gas station sign. When the price changes like a damn stock ticker, you know somethings wrong. Its all a bunch of pencil -whippin' bullshit. You ask why should they lower the price if people are willing to pay more,but what if they weren't? Would that lower the price? I doubt it. They'll just change the rules in their favor. I'm not the smartest man in the world....but it seems that in most markets,when your a business, the more you buy, the more you expect a break in price. I mean isn't that how wal mart has cheaper groceries and merchandise than any other store of its kind? They put the squeeze on their suppliers so hard that they either go out of business or hire china or mexico to make it cheaper for them. I realize we're talking about two different products,but it seems like two different sets of rules to me. I realize companies need to make money, but when losing a couple more dollars a week means they get to make a couple billion more,not knowing what its really going towards.......yeah that kind of pisses me off. I've never been a big fan of big business, government, or organized religion. So, I have a hard time putting any faith in what they say to justify why they do stupid shit that affects me directly. Therefore, its highly unlikely that I'll ever say "okay, keep shoving that fist up my ass Mr. business man......I think you can make it a couple more inches before you bottom out.....unggghhhh!"

well said,

people talk about electronics mark up etc..., if a tv costs a little more, it does not affect the price of every other single market, clothes, groceries, delivery services, mail, autos, etc...

[Black92LX]

Jeremy...usually I agree with you, to an extent, but this time you're being a moron. The fact is that fuel prices are causing ridiculous inflation on goods and services that people CAN'T cut back on. Period.

Agreed. But how much can we as Americans cut back on still???? If one is so tied down that they are cutting back on food because it's the only thing they have left they can afford.
Well it's time to get out of the chair and stop posting on the internet and get a 2nd or 3rd minimum wage job.
People here are not willing to cut certain things in their lives out that are not necessities.

But you must remember fuel prices are not the only reason that food prices are going up. The whole biofuels push and forcing farms to take food to create an energy form that almost no one uses and is far less effective than most forms of power we have today is a large part of it as well.


That being said, maybe this is the wakeup call this country needs. We've been living fat for too many years on cheap energy. I think Cameron said it best earlie
Quote:
You know bitching does nothing. Actions get results. Drive less. Consume less. Pay less. Its pretty simple.

This is my whole point. This country has been living fat and become Dependant upon a nonrenewable natural resource that we don't produce ourselves. One thing this country is way behind in is mass transit. Anyone that has ever been to Europe knows how amazing, effective and efficient mass transit is. Hopefully this will be a wake up call and people will start getting it together and pushing for new sources of energy.



Black92LX

If you were to check not all these other countries who pay $8.00 for a gallon of gas tax their people like we do here in the United States. Some of those countries also provide healthcare at no cost to the individual. They do so in one way by the high prices on their gas at the pumps. We already pay those taxes in more then one way so the gas shouldnt be as high as it is now. Dont be surprised when that gas that is provided for you is taken away because someone is paying for it. When and if that happens and you see how it effects your spendable money at the end of the month you might then understand. Put yourself in someones place who makes a little more then minimum wage and uses a full days just wages to pay for the gas prices that week. Why you would defend these prices is ridiculous and insulting to those that are struggling to get by. I think your entire rant was more of a way for you to make an opportunity that you could brag about how well your doing.

As for universal health care I am 100% against that too.
As for getting my gas taken away please read the numerous posts that I have made in this thread understanding that it is a luxury that I could loose at any moment. But as stated numerous times before I plan for that and budget just like I was paying for gas. But also if they were to take that away it would actually cost the city far more to run the department. By having this luxury it cuts down on many different costs to the department. Take home fleets for a department the size we are actually is far cheaper than not having take home fleets.

I don't feel I have insulted anyone. I have suggested people look at their priorities and the luxuries they spend their money on.
But by standing up and trying to have people understand that we live in a free market and companies should not be punished because they are doing well financially (legally) is not insulting anyone.
I am sorry but that is the free market and how it works.

Again no one has come to with answers as to WHY the oil companies should loose profit for the sake you you and me?

As for starting this thread to brag. That's pretty far off base. I really don't make very much money. I would go to figure that I make about average if not less than most people on here. I just have a very strict personal budget. I used to buy lots and lots of goodies but fortunately was turned on to some financial books and programs. Showing me that sure I would have some nice things now but when it came to retirement and I was on a fixed income. I would be in serious financial trouble. So I have cut back big time and that is why I am not feeling the crunch as much as most.


Very well said Gene..also first quarter, americans have consumed less oil (in barrels than this time last year..)...Yes..most are cutting back... will the price go down?Hell no....motorcycle sells are at an all time high...

But you are forgetting that China and India keep increasing their use of oil. That has a huge effect on the price of gas as well. They get their oil from the same place we do.

That is why we need to get away from oil as our main source of energy.

Gas prices are going to keep going to go up whether we as Americans use less or not. The likelihood of having low gas prices is pretty much gone. It's a nonrenewable resource.

As Cameron stated before:

Driving less and consuming less will do nothing about gas prices!!!!!!!
If we ( the U.S.A.) started using less gasoline the fuel/oil/gas companies will just raise the prices, and make the same record profits for doing less work!!!!
Even if that is true you will still have more money in your pocket. If the prices do come down then its a win win situation. You have more money in your pocket to buy cheaper gas. Actually if people would learn to drive less and consume less we all win. Less pollution, more natural resources, less dependence on foreign resources... I really don't see how that wouldn't work out to be better for the nation.


people talk about electronics mark up etc..., if a tv costs a little more, it does not affect the price of every other single market, clothes, groceries, delivery services, mail, autos, etc...

It does not matter. They both are competing in the free market. They both work on the same rules, guidelines, and principals.
If you don't like the system work to change it by voting and vote for those that have more socialistic views. Or move to a different country that does not operate under the free market.

Just because we are alive entitles us to nothing.

I will defend the free market because I have been to quite a few other places , studied international business and marketing managements and seen how the nonfree markets operate.

Is the free market perfect. No it sure isn't but I wouldn't trade it for any other system.

Part of the free market is ups and down in the economy. We have been on the upside of the economy for nearly the past 20+ years. And we are in a pretty low time right now. It's going to be a bit lower and probably hold there for a year or two before before we start to pull out of it.

But I believe in this country and the people of this country. We will do what we have to to pull out of it.
One of those things is coming up with energy solutions that are renewable and that are not based from other countries.

[may93]

Black92LX

I forgot the fact that your a Police Officer which means your not making a lot of money as most are under paid. If your able to budget and save in times like these on your salary I commend you but most poeple cant and the gas prices are hurting a lot of small buisnesses and familys. Also with the high cost of gasoline and the fact that everyone feels helpless due to the fact we have to buy it regardless of the price in order to get to work, school, and everyday buisness. When someone defends these companys it opens them up for attack such as in these post. Everyone is mad and yet the price keeps increasing.

[k062693w]

I think the funniest thing about the whole thread is the title.. This is America, and freedom of speech rules!!! If I want to bitch about the price of cheese in China it's my constitutional right!!!!!!

[Black92LX]

I think the funniest thing about the whole thread is the title.. This is America, and freedom of speech rules!!! If I want to bitch about the price of cheese in China it's my constitutional right!!!!!!

I guess the main point is the "empty" bitching about things.

If you want to complain and actually do something about it that is one thing. But there are so many people out there crying about it but doing absolutely nothing to change their habits or move the country forward in getting off our dependences from gasoline.

[Black92LX]

Black92LX

I forgot the fact that your a Police Officer which means your not making a lot of money as most are under paid. If your able to budget and save in times like these on your salary I commend you but most poeple cant and the gas prices are hurting a lot of small buisnesses and familys. Also with the high cost of gasoline and the fact that everyone feels helpless due to the fact we have to buy it regardless of the price in order to get to work, school, and everyday buisness. When someone defends these companys it opens them up for attack such as in these post. Everyone is mad and yet the price keeps increasing.

There are far more reasons than gas that small businesses are struggling.
Internet sales and Wal-Marts on every corner are large parts of it.
I like small local businesses and do most of my shopping there even if I do have to pay a little more.

I prefer the local deli not Wal-mart or a big chain. Though they are the only ones that carry Boar's Head Meat. Yum yum.
I prefer the small little hardware store. Unless they can't get what I want.
And I prefer Cincy Speed!! Granted it's not local for me but I make it up there enough that if I need some parts (which have been cut back on huge this year because of the rising prices in the necessities) I'll have Craig get it for me.

I don't like seeing the mom and pop shops going down hill and I support them as much as possible.
I work in the hood and we have a lot of the ghetto convenience stores. I shop their from time to time when I am working. But it can be really hard sometimes to buy a pack of gum that is right next to the chore boy, crack pipes, and digital scales.

[djom1cincy]

WHAT? ONE BILLION PROFIT IS JUST NOT ENOUGH THESE DAYS.

LONDON, England (AP) -- BP has reported a 63 percent jump in profits in the first quarter compared to the same period a year ago.

BP has reported a 63 percent surge in first-quarter profits as crude oil prices continue to benefit producers.

The oil company on Tuesday reported a profit of $7.6 billion compared to $4.4 billion in the first quarter of 2007.

First-quarter profit was up 73 percent compared to the previous quarter.

BP's closely watched replacement cost profit rose 48 percent to $6.59 billion. This compared to US$4.44 billion in the first quarter of 2007. E-mail to a friend

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

ll About BP plc • Oil Prices • Oil Production and Refining

[djom1cincy]

This is from the N.Y. Times.

Shell’s net income in the first three months of the year rose 25 percent to $9.08 billion and BP reported its profit increased 63 percent to $7.62 billion. Shares of Shell and BP trading in London rose more on Monday than they have in at least two years. At BP, oil and gas production was unchanged at 3.9 million barrels of oil equivalent a day, the company said. Shell’s output remained unchanged at 3.5 million barrels of oil equivalent a day, though several recent events had disrupted production.

[BIGRED Z]

Well, I just bought an 35 mpg Acura Integra to drive instead of the 17mpg Silverado.

And I just put in for a job in Florence instead of where I work now, in Clifton. So the trip will be way less miles and time.

Oh, and of course the lapband will help me eat less. Hell, I could get a second job, but I'd have to drive there too...:rolleyes:

Any other suggestions?

[IWRBB]

But you must remember fuel prices are not the only reason that food prices are going up. The whole biofuels push and forcing farms to take food to create an energy form that almost no one uses and is far less effective than most forms of power we have today is a large part of it as well.
Bullshit to the nth degree. Let's see, I just bought a 12 pack of Mountain Dew on sale for $2.50. Same sale price it was 5 years ago. Main ingredient? Corn syrup. Until I see a price increse in corn syrup based products, I ain't buying the "we using all our corn for ethanol" argument at all. Last time I checked, we are still paying huge subsidies to farmers to NOT to grow food. Have those gone away yet? In addition, the vast majority of the biomass left over from ethanol production is still used to feed livestock, it's not a waste material- the cows love it. If anything, we get more out energy of the same corn than we would using it to feed soley to livestock.



This is my whole point. This country has been living fat and become Dependant upon a nonrenewable natural resource that we don't produce ourselves.
So what? Think about it, we are burning other peoples oil. They are idiots for selling it that cheap really. I'd rather burn all of the oil in other countries and have ours to use for advanced technolgies for the next 1000 years once we've moved beyond the IC engine. Yea, we send them crazy amounts money for it and they use that money to attack us, but c'mon, they aren't taking over the USA anytime soon.



One thing this country is way behind in is mass transit. Anyone that has ever been to Europe knows how amazing, effective and efficient mass transit is. Hopefully this will be a wake up call and people will start getting it together and pushing for new sources of energy.
Yea well, lots of the European subways were dug with slave and prison labor. Thousands died during construction, rivers were diverted, wetlands were filled in, you can't do all that anymore. When it comes down to it, mass transit sucks- I don't view mass transit systems as amazing at all. I find them to be stank filled, dirty, crowded and generally depressing.

The other thing is, we aren't Europe. We don't have 5 big cities in our country. We have 250 big cities, and the are spread way the hell out. We have hundreds of miles of NOTHING between lots of cities, lots of European countries aren't even hundreds of miles across- total. We can't just roll stuff out like a small country can. We don't have 4G cell coverage nationwide for the same reason. How many BIG countries had advanced mass transit? Now how many of those are non-communist? I think you'll find it's none.



As for universal health care I am 100% against that too.
Word.



But by standing up and trying to have people understand that we live in a free market and companies should not be punished because they are doing well financially (legally) is not insulting anyone.
I am sorry but that is the free market and how it works.
Exactly. Buy stock in oil companies, they make money- just like their shareholders expect them too.



But you are forgetting that China and India keep increasing their use of oil. That has a huge effect on the price of gas as well. They get their oil from the same place we do. That is why we need to get away from oil as our main source of energy.
The answer is clear, to me at least. The future is electric. Everything will be based on electric power at some point. It may be electric turning water into hydrogen, putting the hydrogen into a car, then running a fuel cell off the hydrogen to power an electric motor, but it will all start with electric. Electric can be made 100% cleanly, today, tomorrow, and forever. You can generate it yourself at home. Try that with heating oil or natural gas. Electric can also be made "cleanly" using nuclear power. There is waste, but it's only "waste" now. That waste could be turned into more nuclear fuel in 200 years with better technology. It could be invaluable for medicine in the future too, who knows? I know electric is THE answer though, without a doubt.

[Black92LX]

Yea well, lots of the European subways were dug with slave and prison labor. Thousands died during construction, rivers were diverted, wetlands were filled in, you can't do all that anymore. When it comes down to it, mass transit sucks- I don't view mass transit systems as amazing at all. I find them to be stank filled, dirty, crowded and generally depressing.

The other thing is, we aren't Europe. We don't have 5 big cities in our country. We have 250 big cities, and the are spread way the hell out. We have hundreds of miles of NOTHING between lots of cities, lots of European countries aren't even hundreds of miles across- total. We can't just roll stuff out like a small country can. We don't have 4G cell coverage nationwide for the same reason. How many BIG countries had advanced mass transit? Now how many of those are non-communist? I think you'll find it's none.

Mass transit can be done very very well on the local level.
Look at Chicago with the "L' and New York with the subway system.
Granted our systems would function differently than that of Europe but it can defiantly be used as a scale model.
Then there are also buses.


The answer is clear, to me at least. The future is electric. Everything will be based on electric power at some point. It may be electric turning water into hydrogen, putting the hydrogen into a car, then running a fuel cell off the hydrogen to power an electric motor, but it will all start with electric. Electric can be made 100% cleanly, today, tomorrow, and forever. You can generate it yourself at home. Try that with heating oil or natural gas. Electric can also be made "cleanly" using nuclear power. There is waste, but it's only "waste" now. That waste could be turned into more nuclear fuel in 200 years with better technology. It could be invaluable for medicine in the future too, who knows? I know electric is THE answer though, without a doubt.

We pretty close in thought process here. Though I would put electric as the number two man, to be behind nuclear power which would in turn make the electric power then the electric power would trickle down to others like hydrogen as you stated.


Bullshit to the nth degree. Let's see, I just bought a 12 pack of Mountain Dew on sale for $2.50. Same sale price it was 5 years ago. Main ingredient? Corn syrup. Until I see a price increse in corn syrup based products, I ain't buying the "we using all our corn for ethanol" argument at all. Last time I checked, we are still paying huge subsidies to farmers to NOT to grow food. Have those gone away yet? In addition, the vast majority of the biomass left over from ethanol production is still used to feed livestock, it's not a waste material- the cows love it. If anything, we get more out energy of the same corn than we would using it to feed soley to livestock.
Actually the reason for your Mt Dew not going up, is the fact that corn syrup is actually made from corn meal which is a by product of the process of making the corn into ethanol. So it is not directly effected. As for saving money there you could have bought the ghetto brand which tastes just the same or you could have had water.


djom1cincy I personally don't care if a companies profits are 100 billion dollars. I don't believe there is any market better than that of the free market and feel it's dangerous for the governement to step in and create price ceilings or price floors for that matter.
The free market is the greatest incentive to better technology, better technology, leads to better innovation and standards of living. Is it something we have to pay more for, sure is but I will gladly pay for it.

Just like insurance I gladly shell out money every month for my health care. Why because we have the greatest care in the world and wouldn't trade it for "universal" health care that I would still be paying for out of my taxes and loose the quality and innovation and care that is given and developed out of the mere thought of profit.

[Black92LX]

Well, I just bought an 35 mpg Acura Integra to drive instead of the 17mpg Silverado.

And I just put in for a job in Florence instead of where I work now, in Clifton. So the trip will be way less miles and time.

Oh, and of course the lapband will help me eat less. Hell, I could get a second job, but I'd have to drive there too...:rolleyes:

Any other suggestions?

Sell that pretty firebird in your avatar. That would give you gas money for a couple years to come.

Like I said it's about priorities. You don't have it so bad that you are willing to give that up.

Does it suck sure, but are we entitled to anything. Nope.

[Kevin Doe]

This thread is far too long to read, so I'll make a comment based solely on the first post.

"Shut up about the damn gas prices!!!" Says the guy who drives around all day for with the city (or whatever locality he works for) footing the bill! Awesome. I'm sure that point has been covered about 100 times thus far though. So ignore me. ;)

[347sc]

Sell that pretty firebird in your avatar. That would give you gas money for a couple years to come.

Like I said it's about priorities. You don't have it so bad that you are willing to give that up.

Does it suck sure, but are we entitled to anything. Nope.



Yes we are entitled to everything we bust our ass for everyday.

Sell your belongings, move and uproot your family,work 4 jobs! Great answers.:bigthumb

You ever been on the L? Thats how I'd want to get to work.

[k062693w]

I think we need another A$$HAT poll !!!!!!!!!!!

[HDmstng]

This is from the N.Y. Times.

Shell’s net income in the first three months of the year rose 25 percent to $9.08 billion and BP reported its profit increased 63 percent to $7.62 billion. Shares of Shell and BP trading in London rose more on Monday than they have in at least two years. At BP, oil and gas production was unchanged at 3.9 million barrels of oil equivalent a day, the company said. Shell’s output remained unchanged at 3.5 million barrels of oil equivalent a day, though several recent events had disrupted production.

Shell Div & Yield: $3.20/share (4.00%)
Chevron Div & Yield: $2.60/share (2.70%)
Exxon Div & Yield: $1.60/share (1.80%)
BP Div & Yield: $3.25/share (4.40%)

http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=BP&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=m&c=XOM,CVX,RDS-B,%5EDJI&a=v&p=s

If you can, you can also profit from the rising prices of gas.

[02mingryGT]

Bullshit to the nth degree. Let's see, I just bought a 12 pack of Mountain Dew on sale for $2.50. Same sale price it was 5 years ago. Main ingredient? Corn syrup. Until I see a price increse in corn syrup based products, I ain't buying the "we using all our corn for ethanol" argument at all. Last time I checked, we are still paying huge subsidies to farmers to NOT to grow food.

+2 :bigthumb



If anything, we get more out energy of the same corn than we would using it to feed soley to livestock.

Uh, ethanol is a net loss in energy. Takes more to make it than it produces so even if you are using it as feed it's still a loss energy wise.



So what? Think about it, we are burning other peoples oil. They are idiots for selling it that cheap really. I'd rather burn all of the oil in other countries and have ours to use for advanced technolgies for the next 1000 years once we've moved beyond the IC engine. Yea, we send them crazy amounts money for it and they use that money to attack us, but c'mon, they aren't taking over the USA anytime soon.

An advanced technology wouldn't use a fossil fuel. And we can pretty much whip on anyone so I agree with that.


The answer is clear, to me at least. The future is electric. Everything will be based on electric power at some point. It may be electric turning water into hydrogen, putting the hydrogen into a car, then running a fuel cell off the hydrogen to power an electric motor, but it will all start with electric. Electric can be made 100% cleanly, today, tomorrow, and forever. You can generate it yourself at home. Try that with heating oil or natural gas. Electric can also be made "cleanly" using nuclear power. There is waste, but it's only "waste" now. That waste could be turned into more nuclear fuel in 200 years with better technology. It could be invaluable for medicine in the future too, who knows? I know electric is THE answer though, without a doubt.

:bigthumb Agreed.

[Black92LX]

This thread is far too long to read, so I'll make a comment based solely on the first post.

"Shut up about the damn gas prices!!!" Says the guy who drives around all day for with the city (or whatever locality he works for) footing the bill! Awesome. I'm sure that point has been covered about 100 times thus far though. So ignore me. ;)

Actually I don't drive around for free. (but you only read the first post so I will summarize for you why I don't just drive around for free)
I pay taxes just like the everyone else and as stated before I fall into the highest tax bracket for my income.

And remember I don't just drive around. I do have responsibilities and things I am required to respond to whether I am on or off duty. If an accident happens in front of me, guess what doesn't matter where I have to be in the next 5 minutes. I am working an accident. If a burglary happens and I am the closest officer, guess what I am responding. And that can take quite a bit of time.
The fact of the matter is that take home fleet actually save the department a large amount of money. Gas is cheap compared to hiring more officers, replacing cars every 3 years as opposed to 10, not to mention the savings alone to individuals by the reduction of many different sorts of property damages.

So no I don't drive a round for free. Because my time is not free.

[IWRBB]

Uh, ethanol is a net loss in energy. Takes more to make it than it produces so even if you are using it as feed it's still a loss energy wise. .
I'm saying, we get more energy from one kernel of corn if it's made into ethanol first, then fed to the livestock. Compared to just feeding it to a cow, then eating the cow. Distillers grain is still great stuff for feeding livestock.

Let's not kid ourselves, the vast majority of corn grown in this country is fed to livestock. Not made into corn flakes or Pepsi or ethanol. I'm not convinced at all there is a corn shortage now, or ever will be. Also, you guys have to remember, corn is only a source for now. Ethanol can be made from anything with organics in it. It's just a matter of time before it's made economically from any biomass waste. Chicken shit, sawdust, garbage, whatever...



An advanced technology wouldn't use a fossil fuel. And we can pretty much whip on anyone so I agree with that.

Every advanced technology is based on a some type of petroleum product. Lots of solvents are used in computers, lots of petro chemicals are used in drug maufacturing. It will be important to have crude oil long into the future for uses besides just burning it to move around. The molecules in crude oil are great, some of nature's best.

[Black92LX]

Ethanol can be made from anything with organics in it. It's just a matter of time before it's made economically from any biomass waste. Chicken shit, sawdust, garbage, whatever...


Actually heard of a push for industrial grown hemp for this exact purpose. Not sure why they are pushing corn must have to do with the farmers lobby in Washington.

A would like to see ethanol become more popular. As my Explorer is a Flex Fuel vehicle and with the new PCM upgrade people are stating they get 18 mpg on E85 and I currently only get 15 on gas.
But also there are no E85 stations anywhere near me. Next time I am in Cincinnati I am going to fill up just for fun to see what sort of mileage I get out of it. I haven't upgraded the PCM yet so I figue it will be in the 12-13 ballpark.


Every advanced technology is based on a some type of petroleum product. Lots of solvents are used in computers, lots of petro chemicals are used in drug maufacturing. It will be important to have crude oil long into the future for uses besides just burning it to move around. The molecules in crude oil are great, some of nature's best.
Nuclear doesn't use Petroleum based products. I honestly think we really need to start pushing more nuclear power.
Also with the rising technology in synthetics we will be able to ween of petroleum for most of the things you mentioned it will just take time but we need to start really focusing in.
Oil prices aren't going to get any cheaper. Should have been looking more into this problem at least a decade ago.

[bestracing]

A would like to see ethanol become more popular. As my Explorer is a Flex Fuel vehicle and with the new PCM upgrade people are stating they get 18 mpg on E85 and I currently only get 15 on gas.
But also there are no E85 stations anywhere near me. Next time I am in Cincinnati I am going to fill up just for fun to see what sort of mileage I get out of it. I haven't upgraded the PCM yet so I figue it will be in the 12-13 ballpark.

When My wife drives her 6 miles to work with half of it on Rt. 17 She gets 14.5 MPG on gas. On Ethanol it's around 10-11 MPG. I also figured out that if the Ethanol isn't more than $0.50 lass than 87 octane gas then gas is cheaper in the long run. We've seen it a few times for $0.60 less than gas and then we filled up using E85.

I'm not sure how you would get better gas milage with E85 since the air/fuel ratio for E85 is higher, meaning you use more fuel for the same amount of energy compaired to gas. If they are getting that mush better than gas than maybe they need to tune the PCM on gas to get better milage there. You should always get better milage with gas than E85.

[Kevin Doe]

Actually I don't drive around for free. (but you only read the first post so I will summarize for you why I don't just drive around for free)
I pay taxes just like the everyone else and as stated before I fall into the highest tax bracket for my income.

And remember I don't just drive around. I do have responsibilities and things I am required to respond to whether I am on or off duty. If an accident happens in front of me, guess what doesn't matter where I have to be in the next 5 minutes. I am working an accident. If a burglary happens and I am the closest officer, guess what I am responding. And that can take quite a bit of time.
The fact of the matter is that take home fleet actually save the department a large amount of money. Gas is cheap compared to hiring more officers, replacing cars every 3 years as opposed to 10, not to mention the savings alone to individuals by the reduction of many different sorts of property damages.

So no I don't drive a round for free. Because my time is not free.

I think you took that teh wrong way. I only meant you don't pay for your own gas. Sure you pay taxes, but so does everyeone else that that actually pays for their own gas. You just have the luxary of splitting the cost of your gas with 1 million other people.

I appreciate what you do as a police officer. A good friend of mine is a Cincy officer on bike patrol in district one. I think its an awesome job. It does have its perks. And one that I'm jealous of is not paying for your own gas. LOL.

[Black92LX]

I think you took that teh wrong way. I only meant you don't pay for your own gas. Sure you pay taxes, but so does everyeone else that that actually pays for their own gas. You just have the luxary of splitting the cost of your gas with 1 million other people.

I appreciate what you do as a police officer. A good friend of mine is a Cincy officer on bike patrol in district one. I think its an awesome job. It does have its perks. And one that I'm jealous of is not paying for your own gas. LOL.

But you have to remember that when I am off duty I am still required to respond to many different calls. I would say I average 4 off duty calls a week. That would add approximately 3-4 hours of overtime if I were on duty.
After my 40 hours I won't work for less than $30 an hour. So That is $90-$120 if not more per week.
So in turn I am not driving around for free is my point.
Don't get me wrong it is a luxury and I am well aware of that but everyone classifies it as free. That is it not. I just pay for it in a different fashion than the average driver.

Plus there are times when I can't drive my cruiser or I don't want to. I am always the police but I can hide it a little better in my Explorer than i can in the cruiser I have no option I am the police and one never knows when something is going to happen.
Doesn't matter if I have family in the car if we have priority one situations and I am in the area guess what they go too.

And trust me it is very disconcerting when an officer needs assistance call goes out when you are on the way to the store and you are the closest officer. I have two choices, have the fiance get out and I'll be back for you in a little bit or tell her to grab on.
She loves it so she always chooses to go along but I now have another person brought into the mix that I am responsible for.

[Black92LX]

When My wife drives her 6 miles to work with half of it on Rt. 17 She gets 14.5 MPG on gas. On Ethanol it's around 10-11 MPG. I also figured out that if the Ethanol isn't more than $0.50 lass than 87 octane gas then gas is cheaper in the long run. We've seen it a few times for $0.60 less than gas and then we filled up using E85.

I'm not sure how you would get better gas milage with E85 since the air/fuel ratio for E85 is higher, meaning you use more fuel for the same amount of energy compaired to gas. If they are getting that mush better than gas than maybe they need to tune the PCM on gas to get better milage there. You should always get better milage with gas than E85.

With the main averages I have found E85 needs to be about .60 cents cheaper. Which dependent upon the part of the country you are in you can be $1.00+ cheaper.

As for the PCM update stuff like I said it's what folks on the explorer forums are claiming. I haven't updated mine nor have I ever used Ethanol. But I would like it to be an option.
Wat vehicle does she drive??

[Mista Bone]

I stopped looking at E85 prices a long time ago. Marathon station in Mariemount had 87 octane E10 and E85 at the ame price, $2.87 a gallon.

[Timido]

So when they call you after hours they dont pay you? I wouldnt have heard that call.
Are you paid by the hour or salary?

[djom1cincy]

I dont pay for my gas and I'm still bitching about the prices. I put gas in my personl car every 3 to 4 weeks. The only reason its that often is because I drive from the eastside of town to the westside on friday nights to hit the bars with friends. Its still bull that its 4 dollars a gallon. The gas companys have everyone by there throats. They could increase production and drop prices but thats to easy. They would rather keep production low and keep prices high. Less output and more profit.

[Black92LX]

So when they call you after hours they dont pay you? I wouldnt have heard that call.
Are you paid by the hour or salary?

It's a hybrid hourly/salary kind of thing. Our contract regulates our salary which is broken down to an hourly rate. We are paid overtime for anything over 40 hours in a week and overtime pay for all court related proceedings. We also have comp time for certain things. With that we just come in late or go home early dependant upon how we want to use it.
If it's a call out I get my normal overtime rate.

But say I am out and about going to the store or running errands. And something goes out, happens in front of me, or I make a traffic stop unless it turns into something major and takes up a substantial amount of time. It's just kind of part of the job no compensation for that other than the take home car.

We have certain things we are required to respond to or at least radio in dependent upon the situation if we are off duty. We are required to be armed at all times when we are out with the cruiser I also have a raid vest that has ballistic panels and big patches that say police, just in case I am around in plain clothes and need to help. Kind of freaks people out when you stop in the middle of the intersection in plain clothes, run to the trunk, throw on the raid vest and do a nice 180 running lights and sirens.
There have been those that have just driven past accidents, or other things where they should have stopped at least just to make sure no one was hurt. Someone wrote down the plate number and reported them it could call for disciplinary action. Because response is part of the home fleet agreement.

[Black92LX]

They could increase production and drop prices but thats to easy. They would rather keep production low and keep prices high. Less output and more profit.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. There aren't enough refineries. They are already working at the efficients levels. Increasing production in the current refineries would add more costs that would then push the cost to us.

We need to build more refineries but the governement won't let them or the people in the aea won't let them.

[beefcake]

Unfortunately it's not that easy. There aren't enough refineries. They are already working at the efficients levels. Increasing production in the current refineries would add more costs that would then push the cost to us.

We need to build more refineries but the governement won't let them or the people in the aea won't let them.

thats bs too, how many times can they keep making excuses, it's the same opposite excuse every time,

well, it's winter, so we need to raise prices, well, it's summer, we need to raise prices

well, production is down so we need to raise prices, well, production is up, so we need to raise prices.

it's all bs propaganda, i know you have your intelligent arguments, but in the end, it's bull$hit propaganda, i don't know why you continue to waste your breath defending these companies.

it is a monopoly, period. if it was microsoft, they'd have already broken em up more, and fined em hundreds of millions of dollars.

they are crippling the country, period

they could easily build more refineries, but then that would be one less excuse they would be able to use

[Gene]

thats bs too, how many times can they keep making excuses, it's the same opposite excuse every time,

well, it's winter, so we need to raise prices, well, it's summer, we need to raise prices

well, production is down so we need to raise prices, well, production is up, so we need to raise prices.

it's all bs propaganda, i know you have your intelligent arguments, but in the end, it's bull$hit propaganda, i don't know why you continue to waste your breath defending these companies.

it is a monopoly, period. if it was microsoft, they'd have already broken em up more, and fined em hundreds of millions of dollars.

they are crippling the country, period

they could easily build more refineries, but then that would be one less excuse they would be able to use

Exactly.

Well put, Terry.

[Black92LX]

they could easily build more refineries, but then that would be one less excuse they would be able to use

Sadly they can't because no one wants them to be built in their backyards even if the government would allow them to build. But the government is too worried about the environmental yahoos.
The restrictions placed upon refineries is monumental.

And as pointed out by numerous other the gas companieS are far from a monopoly.

As for defending them. I am defending the free market and always will whether that be oil companies, health care companies, pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't matter to me. I will even defend a car dealership adding a 10,000+ markup on a car. High profits made in a legal fashion are a good thing in my book.

Even if they could build refineries as easily as you believe they can. Why should they build them if it's not profitable to them.
You keep thinking they somehow are in business for you. I don't know where this mentality comes from but they could careless about you and really have no reason too as long as you are paying for their product. It doesn't matter if that product is a necessity or not.

[Gene]

And as pointed out by numerous other the gas companieS are far from a monopoly.

As for defending them. I am defending the free market and always will whether that be oil companies, health care companies, pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't matter to me. I will even defend a car dealership adding a 10,000+ markup on a car. High profits made in a legal fashion are a good thing in my book.

Even if they could build refineries as easily as you believe they can. Why should they build them if it's not profitable to them.
You keep thinking they somehow are in business for you. I don't know where this mentality comes from but they could careless about you and really have no reason too as long as you are paying for their product. It doesn't matter if that product is a necessity or not.

Price fixing and collusion violate the fundamental tenets of a free market economy, as well as being a violation of US Antitrust law. You don't have to be a monopoly to violate Antitrust.

If there were truly VIABLE alternatives to petroleum at the present, your argument would have merit, but at the present petroleum is a necessity for which there is no alternative. Just letting the oil companies set prices to fatten their wallets at the detriment of the economy as a whole is very poor policy.

[04 Venom]

Unfortunately it's not that easy. There aren't enough refineries. They are already working at the efficients levels. Increasing production in the current refineries would add more costs that would then push the cost to us.

We need to build more refineries but the governement won't let them or the people in the aea won't let them.

The government has nothing to do with the lack of new refineries.

[Timido]

I think it was said early on and I heard it the other day. A big reason the gas is high is the American dollar is bad right now. The FED needs to raise the rates so the dollar will become worth more. The other thing that will help the Dollar is that it is low and we are exporting alot because the other countrys are getting a bargan. That will make the dollar stronger also.

[Mista Bone]

The government has nothing to do with the lack of new refineries.

Really now, I believe our government created the EPA and it's laws which would oversee if a new refinery was to be built.

[ricks_85_gt]

This thread is never goin to end, just like the rising of the gas prices!!!! WHO CARES!! Where still goin to pay for gas no matter what the price!!

[02mingryGT]

Price fixing and collusion violate the fundamental tenets of a free market economy, as well as being a violation of US Antitrust law. You don't have to be a monopoly to violate Antitrust.

If there were truly VIABLE alternatives to petroleum at the present, your argument would have merit, but at the present petroleum is a necessity for which there is no alternative. Just letting the oil companies set prices to fatten their wallets at the detriment of the economy as a whole is very poor policy.



The government has nothing to do with the lack of new refineries.

Wow the lack of understanding of economics baffles the mind. Lack of understanding the oil business and the restriction upon them comes in a close second.

OPEC sets the minimum price of the barrel when they sell, they also set their production limits thus keeping the price above the minimum. THEN, the commodities traders SPECULATE based on current events which could be political, nature or business related that effects the production of the oil all the way to the end user, you and I. That and their greedy as hell, so if they see a situation that could effect supply they jack the price up. For example Middle East issues, hurricanes, fires at refineries. This in turn costs the oil companies more money to purchase the oil in it's raw form. They in turn pass that crap to us, the end user. Absolutely Oil companies REVENUE will go up double when the price of oil has doubled. It's simple mathematics. If you made two dollars and now make four your revenue has doubled. The important number is the profit percentage. And from what I've seen the profit percentage has stayed steady between 7-10%. Price gouging implies a high profit margin by the SELLER which is not the case. I can see where there is a semblance of an monopoly because of the lack of competition for their product. But because of the steady profit margin there isn't a case.

And to think a oil company can just build a refinery anywhere at anytime is pure ignorance of the facts. I would suggest some research is done before you blatantly show your lack of understanding of current environmental law.


Sadly they can't because no one wants them to be built in their backyards even if the government would allow them to build. But the government is too worried about the environmental yahoos.
The restrictions placed upon refineries is monumental.

And as pointed out by numerous other the gas companieS are far from a monopoly.

As for defending them. I am defending the free market and always will whether that be oil companies, health care companies, pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't matter to me. I will even defend a car dealership adding a 10,000+ markup on a car. High profits made in a legal fashion are a good thing in my book.

Even if they could build refineries as easily as you believe they can. Why should they build them if it's not profitable to them.
You keep thinking they somehow are in business for you. I don't know where this mentality comes from but they could careless about you and really have no reason too as long as you are paying for their product. It doesn't matter if that product is a necessity or not.


I agree with you Black. I don't like the gas prices either but the real culprit is Wall Street and the lack of viable new technology along with a higher demand. Here's a thread on ModularFords along the same lines:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109400

[04 Venom]

Really now, I believe our government created the EPA and it's laws which would oversee if a new refinery was to be built.

The permitting process is controlled by the state and local governments to build a refinery.

[04 Venom]

"And to think a oil company can just build a refinery anywhere at anytime is pure ignorance of the facts. I would suggest some research is done before you blatantly show your lack of understanding of current environmental law." (quote)


The permitting process is controlled by the state and local governments, not the federal government. No one said you can build a refinery anywhere. But I am sure your "research" has disclosed that.

[Black92LX]

"And to think a oil company can just build a refinery anywhere at anytime is pure ignorance of the facts. I would suggest some research is done before you blatantly show your lack of understanding of current environmental law." (quote)


The permitting process is controlled by the state and local governments, not the federal government. No one said you can build a refinery anywhere. But I am sure your "research" has disclosed that.

you are forgetting a huge part of building a refinery. The actual functionality of the site. Yes where they build is controlled by the local governments. But after it is built and in operation it falls under Environmental guidelines those my friend are controlled by the FEDERAL governement.
Sure you can build them all you want but what good is a refinery that can't give any output due to the stringent regulations placed on them by the feds??

[Black92LX]

Price fixing and collusion violate the fundamental tenets of a free market economy, as well as being a violation of US Antitrust law. You don't have to be a monopoly to violate Antitrust.

If there were truly VIABLE alternatives to petroleum at the present, your argument would have merit, but at the present petroleum is a necessity for which there is no alternative. Just letting the oil companies set prices to fatten their wallets at the detriment of the economy as a whole is very poor policy.

As stated by 02mingryGT.
Price setting and collusion are not happening in an illegal fashion you and I both know that.

The way that oil is bought and sold it may seem that way but when you actually break it down by the pricing structure that 02mingryGT has already laid out it does not meet the definition of price setting or collusion so it does not violate any anti-trust law.

[02mingryGT]

"And to think a oil company can just build a refinery anywhere at anytime is pure ignorance of the facts. I would suggest some research is done before you blatantly show your lack of understanding of current environmental law." (quote)


The permitting process is controlled by the state and local governments, not the federal government. No one said you can build a refinery anywhere. But I am sure your "research" has disclosed that.

No one said you could your right. But the attitude of the post implied it. Also it says environmental law not local, state or federal. So my "research" still out weighs your lack there of. :lol:

All I'm saying is if you want to blame someone at least blame the correct parties.

[04 Venom]

you are forgetting a huge part of building a refinery. The actual functionality of the site. Yes where they build is controlled by the local governments. But after it is built and in operation it falls under Environmental guidelines those my friend are controlled by the FEDERAL governement.
Sure you can build them all you want but what good is a refinery that can't give any output due to the stringent regulations placed on them by the feds??

Don't take my word for it. Read "Environmental Regulation and Productivity: Evidence From Oil Refineries" on the National Bureau of Econominc Research website. The NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan economic research organization. The study was conducted by two scientists and was peer reviewed prior to publication.

[mustang8998]

Arguing over new refineries, is a moot point.

Do you all know how long it would take, to just get the process started.

First, finding a viable site. (Gotta please the NIMBY's)

Then comes environmental studies. (Gotta please the greenie's)

Once all that has taken place (years!), then the construction process can proceed (a lot of years!).

So, by the time all that takes place, we may no longer need the refinery. Or, at best, it won't be able to keep up with the demand!

[BIGRED Z]

GO NUCLEAR!!!

[Black92LX]

GO NUCLEAR!!!

that's exactly correct

[Mista Bone]

Arguing over new refineries, is a moot point.

Do you all know how long it would take, to just get the process started.

First, finding a viable site. (Gotta please the NIMBY's)

Then comes environmental studies. (Gotta please the greenie's)

Once all that has taken place (years!), then the construction process can proceed (a lot of years!).

So, by the time all that takes place, we may no longer need the refinery. Or, at best, it won't be able to keep up with the demand!

I hate Bush, but he wanted to drill for oil in ANWAR which by now would be in the supply chain. Also there are refinerys sitting IDLE, seven in 2006, four in 2007. People pumping oil are getting richer.....mom might get a good check this year.

About energy supplies, there is more available than we can ever use. Use trapped methane gas to produce electricity, drive oversized golf carts :)

[BigBadStang]

that's exactly correct

Naw...we can't do that. The liberals have scared the shit out of the public with the negative propaganda on nuclear energy years ago.

[Mista Bone]

TMI sorta scared the public about nuclear energy.

[BigBadStang]

Not many people hear of THIS (http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-us-governments-secret-colorado-oil-discovery). Interesting enough though. It is an older article published in 2006, when oil was pushing $70 a barrel...lol...we all had no idea!

[04 Venom]

Not many people hear of THIS (http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-us-governments-secret-colorado-oil-discovery). Interesting enough though. It is an older article published in 2006, when oil was pushing $70 a barrel...lol...we all had no idea!

I remember reading reports about shale oil during the first oil embargo in 1973. At that time it was deemed too expensive to do on a large scale basis (when oil "jumped" from $2.50 a barrel to $11.00!!). Interesting article.

[e5shea]

Not many people hear of THIS (http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-us-governments-secret-colorado-oil-discovery). Interesting enough though. It is an older article published in 2006, when oil was pushing $70 a barrel...lol...we all had no idea!

How does something like this not catch media attention now? You'd think that would be all over the news. As distraught as Americans are about oil, and their assumptions about the war...you'd think the government would use this as positive propoganda to help show some light at the end of the tunnel. Very interesting though.

[02mingryGT]

How does something like this not catch media attention now? You'd think that would be all over the news. As distraught as Americans are about oil, and their assumptions about the war...you'd think the government would use this as positive propoganda to help show some light at the end of the tunnel. Very interesting though.

If you guys would have read the post with the link to modularfords you would see that yes they do know about it and Nancy Pelosi and the Dumbacrats have passed a law making it untouchable. POST from that thread:

Alaska is junk compared to the oil shale in Colorado, Wyoming & Utah. There is at least 1.5-1.8 Trillion Barrels of oil in those 3 states. I've seen some say as much as 6 Trillion Barrels. It's in the form of oil shale, not liquid like Alaska though. And you can thank Nancy Pelosi for passing the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 for placing it off limits. The Energy act says we can't drill, purchase, or use oil from a source that creates more greenhouse gases than a traditional liquid reserve. So the US is in an energy crisis, shrinking economy, a falling dollar, and sitting on one of the largest reserves in the world (more oil than the entire middle east) and we put it off limits. This is a brilliant government.


So keep voting for the Dumbacrats SHEEP. And then blame Bush when your gas cost more. SHEEP.

[04 Venom]

If you guys would have read the post with the link to modularfords you would see that yes they do know about it and Nancy Pelosi and the Dumbacrats have passed a law making it untouchable. POST from that thread:

Alaska is junk compared to the oil shale in Colorado, Wyoming & Utah. There is at least 1.5-1.8 Trillion Barrels of oil in those 3 states. I've seen some say as much as 6 Trillion Barrels. It's in the form of oil shale, not liquid like Alaska though. And you can thank Nancy Pelosi for passing the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 for placing it off limits. The Energy act says we can't drill, purchase, or use oil from a source that creates more greenhouse gases than a traditional liquid reserve. So the US is in an energy crisis, shrinking economy, a falling dollar, and sitting on one of the largest reserves in the world (more oil than the entire middle east) and we put it off limits. This is a brilliant government.


So keep voting for the Dumbacrats SHEEP. And then blame Bush when your gas cost more. SHEEP.

Knowing your penchant for confusing arguments with facts, here's what actually happened. The Senate passed the final bill on 12/13/07 by a vote of 86-8 (including a majority of Republicans); the House passed it by a vote or 314-100 (didn't check the roll car, but do the math, there was substantial if not majority Republican support for the conference bill as well because some Democrats opposed the bill because of the subsidies given to the oil companies) on 12 /18/07; and, the President signed it on 12/19/07. There are 1502 sections of the bill; it says nothing about drilling, purchasing, etc. that creates more greenhouse gases than traditional liquid reserve. It says nothing regarding putting any sources of energy off limits. What the bill actually provides for is funds to study carbon sequestration techologies. In short, it doesn't say what you claim, as usual.

[BigBadStang]

:popcorn:

[cstreu1026]

Oil shale, tar sands, oil in ANWR, deep water wells in the gulf all are only economically viable at the current elevated oil prices and beyond. The cost of one deep water rig in the gulf could surpass $700 million. It would take quite a long time to recover those costs at $30 a barrell. Besides its already been seen that the market will suport $130/ barrell and not collapse so what reason is there for the prices to come down? There is also the long development time for any new production efforts. For example it is estimated that it would take 10-15 years to bring oil from ANWR to market.

[BigBadStang]

all the more reason to start doing something NOW!
We can only imagine what the oil market will be like in 10-15 years.
The oil shale was becoming feasible when oil was approaching $70 a barrel, so it should be more attractive now than ever before.

[cstreu1026]

Given current extraction technologies oil shale and tar sands are a bust. Some figures suggest that for every unit of energy produced by the recovered oil it takes twice as much to produce it.

[04 Venom]

Let' wait for 02mingryGT's solution to the problem. It won't be right or based on any facts, but at least it will be entertaining.

[Mista Bone]

Time for some not so funny, funnies!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/10.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/11.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/2.jpg

[Mista Bone]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/3.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/4.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/5.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/5.jpg

[Mista Bone]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/7.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/8.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/9.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/civic4dr2000/untitled.jpg

[04 Venom]

Given current extraction technologies oil shale and tar sands are a bust. Some figures suggest that for every unit of energy produced by the recovered oil it takes twice as much to produce it.

That's what i read as well. The Rand Corporation did a study and concluded the shale had to be heated to 650-700 degrees for several years to release the tar-like substance. With the oil speculators driving the price higher every day, at some point it may become feasible. I'm still waiting for the latest scientific evidence 02mingryGT brings to us from the modularfords forum, which apparently is where he does all his reading and research.

[02mingryGT]

Let' wait for 02mingryGT's solution to the problem. It won't be right or based on any facts, but at least it will be entertaining.

How about you post something besides liberal gibberish.

About Oil Shale

Basic information on oil shale, oil shale resources, and recovery of oil from oil shale.
What Is Oil Shale?

Oil shaleclick to view larger image
Oil shale



The term oil shale generally refers to any sedimentary rock that contains solid bituminous materials (called kerogen) that are released as petroleum-like liquids when the rock is heated in the chemical process of pyrolysis. Oil shale was formed millions of years ago by deposition of silt and organic debris on lake beds and sea bottoms. Over long periods of time, heat and pressure transformed the materials into oil shale in a process similar to the process that forms oil; however, the heat and pressure were not as great. Oil shale generally contains enough oil that it will burn without any additional processing, and it is known as "the rock that burns".

Oil shale can be mined and processed to generate oil similar to oil pumped from conventional oil wells; however, extracting oil from oil shale is more complex than conventional oil recovery and currently is more expensive. The oil substances in oil shale are solid and cannot be pumped directly out of the ground. The oil shale must first be mined and then heated to a high temperature (a process called retorting); the resultant liquid must then be separated and collected. An alternative but currently experimental process referred to as in situ retorting involves heating the oil shale while it is still underground, and then pumping the resulting liquid to the surface.

See the Photos page for additional photos of oil shale.
Oil Shale Resources

Green River Formationclick to view larger image
Location of the Green River Formation Oil Shale and Its Main Basins



While oil shale is found in many places worldwide, by far the largest deposits in the world are found in the United States in the Green River Formation, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Estimates of the oil resource in place within the Green River Formation range from 1.2 to 1.8 trillion barrels. Not all resources in place are recoverable; however, even a moderate estimate of 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from oil shale in the Green River Formation is three times greater than the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. Present U.S. demand for petroleum products is about 20 million barrels per day. If oil shale could be used to meet a quarter of that demand, the estimated 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from the Green River Formation would last for more than 400 years1.

More than 70% of the total oil shale acreage in the Green River Formation, including the richest and thickest oil shale deposits, is under federally owned and managed lands. Thus, the federal government directly controls access to the most commercially attractive portions of the oil shale resource base.

See the Maps page for additional maps of oil shale resources in the Green River Formation.
The Oil Shale Industry

While oil shale has been used as fuel and as a source of oil in small quantities for many years, few countries currently produce oil from oil shale on a significant commercial level. Many countries do not have significant oil shale resources, but in those countries that do have significant oil shale resources, the oil shale industry has not developed because historically, the cost of oil derived from oil shale has been significantly higher than conventional pumped oil. The lack of commercial viability of oil shale-derived oil has in turn inhibited the development of better technologies that might reduce its cost.

Relatively high prices for conventional oil in the 1970s and 1980s stimulated interest and some development of better oil shale technology, but oil prices eventually fell, and major research and development activities largely ceased. More recently, prices for crude oil have again risen to levels that may make oil shale-based oil production commercially viable, and both governments and industry are interested in pursuing the development of oil shale as an alternative to conventional oil.
Oil Shale Mining and Processing

Oil shale can be mined using one of two methods: underground mining using the room-and-pillar method or surface mining. After mining, the oil shale is transported to a facility for retorting, a heating process that separates the oil fractions of oil shale from the mineral fraction.. The vessel in which retorting takes place is known as a retort. After retorting, the oil must be upgraded by further processing before it can be sent to a refinery, and the spent shale must be disposed of. Spent shale may be disposed of in surface impoundments, or as fill in graded areas; it may also be dispoed of in previously mined areas. Eventually, the mined land is reclaimed. Both mining and processing of oil shale involve a variety of environmental impacts, such as global warming and greenhouse gas emissions, disturbance of mined land, disposal of spent shale, use of water resources, and impacts on air and water quality. The development of a commercial oil shale industry in the United States would also have significant social and economic impacts on local communities. Other impediments to development of the oil shale industry in the United States include the relatively high cost of producing oil from oil shale (currently greater than $60 per barrel), and the lack of regulations to lease oil shale.

Major Process Steps in Mining and Surface Retorting

Surface Retorting

While current technologies are adequate for oil shale mining, the technology for surface retorting has not been successfully applied at a commercially viable level in the United States, although technical viability has been demonstrated. Further development and testing of surface retorting technology is needed before the method is likely to succeed on a commercial scale.

photo of Stuart Oil Shale Facility, Queensland, Australiaclick to view larger image
Stuart Oil Shale Facility, Queensland, Australia




Surface Retortclick to view larger image
Surface Retort



See the Photos page for additional photos of oil shale processing facilities.
In Situ Retorting

Shell Oil is currently developing an in situ conversion process (ICP). The process involves heating underground oil shale, using electric heaters placed in deep vertical holes drilled through a section of oil shale. The volume of oil shale is heated over a period of two to three years, until it reaches 650–700 °F, at which point oil is released from the shale. The released product is gathered in collection wells positioned within the heated zone.

Major Process Steps in in-situ conversion process (ICP)


The Shell In-Situ Conversion Process


Shell's current plan involves use of ground-freezing technology to establish an underground barrier called a "freeze wall" around the perimeter of the extraction zone. The freeze wall is created by pumping refrigerated fluid through a series of wells drilled around the extraction zone. The freeze wall prevents groundwater from entering the extraction zone, and keeps hydrocarbons and other products generated by the in-situ retorting from leaving the project perimeter.

Shell's process is currently unproven at a commercial scale, but is regarded by the U.S. Department of Energy as a very promising technology. Confirmation of the technical feasibility of the concept, however, hinges on the resolution of two major technical issues: controlling groundwater during production and preventing subsurface environmental problems, including groundwater impacts.1

Both mining and processing of oil shale involve a variety of environmental impacts, such as global warming and greenhouse gas emissions, disturbance of mined land; impacts on wildlife and air and water quality. The development of a commercial oil shale industry in the U.S. would also have significant social and economic impacts on local communities. Of special concern in the relatively arid western United States is the large amount of water required for oil shale processing; currently, oil shale extraction and processing require several barrels of water for each barrel of oil produced, though some of the water can be recycled.

1 RAND Corporation Oil Shale Development in the United States Prospects and Policy Issues. J. T. Bartis, T. LaTourrette, L. Dixon, D.J. Peterson, and G. Cecchine, MG-414-NETL, 2005.
For More Information

Additional information on oil shale is available through the Web. Visit the Links page to access sites with more information.

http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/index.cfm

YOU KEEP LOOKING DUMBER AND DUMBER YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT? I BET YOU RODE THE LITTLE BUS.

You guys need to read articles that are current on oil shale technology INSTEAD of shit that's years old.

:flipoff::flipoff::flipoff::flipoff::flipoff::flip off::flipoff::flipoff:

[04 Venom]

[QUOTE=02mingryGT;379379]How about you post something besides liberal gibberish.

Well that's certainly entertaining and pretty much what we would have expected from you.

[02mingryGT]

[QUOTE=02mingryGT;379379]How about you post something besides liberal gibberish.

Well that's certainly entertaining and pretty much what we would have expected from you.


Yeah it was. And we is what, one person now? Where's your refutal now dummy?

Here's something else for you. I don't have time to go through the bill piece by piece but what I said was in there is. The following is from Wikipedia and is a generality but it should suffice for now:

Opposition to the bill

[edit] Oil industry taxes

Opponents argued that the act would "increase Americans reliance on foreign sources of energy by making new domestic exploration and production more costly" and stated that markets should drive U.S. energy policy. They were concerned that the Strategic Energy Efficiency and Renewables Reserve would be used for "politically-connected pet projects," citing a similar fund created by the Carter administration that went bankrupt after only a few years.[7]

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce said that the bill would punish an industry that has made many Americans wealthy for generations, adding that "Congress and various Administrations have perhaps imposed more regulations on the oil and gas industry than any other industry in the United States." The Chamber said it supported the rapid development of alternative fuels but that the new technologies are not developed enough, and are insufficient to make any real difference. It believed more regulation on oil and gas producers is not the answer to the energy problem.[8]

Conservative activist and president of Americans for Tax Reform Grover Norquist characterized the bill’s provisions regarding renegotiation of leases as a violation of binding contracts, calling the bill “a violation of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge” since it wouldn’t create tax cuts to offset the additional revenue it would raise.[7]

Representative Ted Poe said the bill “will decrease U.S. exploration and will increase our dependence on foreign oil,” and, “by raising taxes and fees on oil and gas companies that choose to manufacture in America, the U.S. will become a less attractive place to produce oil and natural gas. This essentially creates incentives for foreign importation and could kill manufacturing jobs in an industry that employs nearly 1.8 million Americans.”[1]

Opponents included Democratic Senators Claire McCaskill, Mary Landrieu, Carl Levin, and Debbie Stabenow. House Democratic opponents were John Barrow and Jim Marshall of Georgia, Nick Lampson of Texas, and Dan Boren of Oklahoma

BTW, I don't really care what you think. It's the internet after all so your safe.

[04 Venom]

[QUOTE=04 Venom;379381]


Yeah it was. And we is what, one person now? Where's your refutal now dummy?

Here's something else for you. I don't have time to go through the bill piece by piece but what I said was in there is. The following is from Wikipedia and is a generality but it should suffice for now:

Opposition to the bill

[edit] Oil industry taxes

Opponents argued that the act would "increase Americans reliance on foreign sources of energy by making new domestic exploration and production more costly" and stated that markets should drive U.S. energy policy. They were concerned that the Strategic Energy Efficiency and Renewables Reserve would be used for "politically-connected pet projects," citing a similar fund created by the Carter administration that went bankrupt after only a few years.[7]

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce said that the bill would punish an industry that has made many Americans wealthy for generations, adding that "Congress and various Administrations have perhaps imposed more regulations on the oil and gas industry than any other industry in the United States." The Chamber said it supported the rapid development of alternative fuels but that the new technologies are not developed enough, and are insufficient to make any real difference. It believed more regulation on oil and gas producers is not the answer to the energy problem.[8]

Conservative activist and president of Americans for Tax Reform Grover Norquist characterized the bill’s provisions regarding renegotiation of leases as a violation of binding contracts, calling the bill “a violation of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge” since it wouldn’t create tax cuts to offset the additional revenue it would raise.[7]

Representative Ted Poe said the bill “will decrease U.S. exploration and will increase our dependence on foreign oil,” and, “by raising taxes and fees on oil and gas companies that choose to manufacture in America, the U.S. will become a less attractive place to produce oil and natural gas. This essentially creates incentives for foreign importation and could kill manufacturing jobs in an industry that employs nearly 1.8 million Americans.”[1]

Opponents included Democratic Senators Claire McCaskill, Mary Landrieu, Carl Levin, and Debbie Stabenow. House Democratic opponents were John Barrow and Jim Marshall of Georgia, Nick Lampson of Texas, and Dan Boren of Oklahoma

BTW, I don't really care what you think. It's the internet after all so your safe.

Anyone, even you, can post information on Wikipedia. The excerpt you posted is simply people's opinions, rather than than actual provisions of the bill. You once again pass off opinion as fact. I'm still waiting for the proof that the bill outlaws shale oil or any other form of energy. Where's the evidence that "Peolsi and the Democrats" did anything in the bill you claimed in the earlier post? Did I get the vote tally wrong? Did you see that , most Republicans in the House and Senate voted for the bill? The trouble is, you can't argue facts, so you simply resort to name calling. I really don't care what politician or party you support, just don't pass off your ill informed diatribes as facts.

[Sharad]

blah blah blah... I'm too lazy to get into the debate.

Gas is too expensive and it's the liberals' fault

Good news though... I saw one of barack HUSSEIN obama's campaign speeches last night. Apparently he's going to give EVERYONE something for nothing. So either way, we can't lose this november.

[Mista Bone]

almost $134 a barrel........

[04 Venom]

Gas is too expensive and it's the liberals' fault (quote)


This is America, it's always someone else's fault.

[Sharad]

unless you're a liberal, and then it would be your own fault!






















jfwy because you're an easy target. Seriously though, it's the libs that always want to blame it on everyone else... not the conservatives.

[04 Venom]

unless you're a liberal, and then it would be your own fault!













just








jfwy because you're an easy target. Seriously though, it's the libs that always want to blame it on everyone else... not the conservatives.

All in good fun, Sharad. But, the remark you quoted me on was supposed to be ironic, since you had just placed the blame for high gas prices on the "liberals". I don't presume you to be a "conservative" nor should you assume differently about me.

My main point about this blizzard of posts is that too many people accept what appears on the internet to be factually based rather than mere opinion. But what really torques me are the political campaigns, of both parties, which are specifically designed to mislead. We are about to witness probably the worst yet in this campaign cycle and it reflects, in my view, a cynical contempt for the public. Too bad Ross Perot, or others before him, were not successful in establishing a viable third party, since neither candidate is discussing the corrosive effect of huge budget deficits or social security/medicare (such as truthfully telling the public you either choose higher taxes or lower benefits).

I also enjoy a good argument, obviously.