Food for thought

[cstreu1026]

This might put gas prices in perspective a bit.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/index.htm?postversion=2008050109

[bobtsgt]

wow.... just wow..... I guess we shouldn't bitch that much but then again look what Russia is paying.

[cstreu1026]

I hate paying $3.75 a gallon to put gas in my SRT4 but it could be much much worse.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Lately i've just bit the bullet and tried not to focus on it. Prices are going to go up, it can't stay under $2 forever. Think of how our grandparents feel since they paid so little for it back in the day.

[cstreu1026]

Yup. I just try to be smarter about what I spend my money on. We will be turning our Grand Cherokee in come September when the lease is up. My wife really likes it but consider the poor fuel economy I can't see a good reason for us to keep it. I will probably put my SRT4 up for sale around that time as well so we can buy something that is more fuel efficient and end up with a lower payment.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I'm lucky to own all 3 of my vehicles but i do have a '98 Cherokee and that damn thing sucks gas like crazy. It's rated for less mpg than my Mustang is. The Merkur doesn't do too bad but still only 25mpg or so.

[beefcake]

sure we can bitch, it's the attitude of look at everyone else

all of the money that millions of us are paying to gas are going to a couple hundred people making them billionaires,

so what some pay more,

some pay less, i for one think it's crap and someone needs to start takin ceo's out

[k062693w]

But!!! Would you rather pay $5-$6 bucks a gallon for gas and not have to pay for health care and education?? I sure as hell would!!!! Figure an average of $300-$400 a month for healthcare insurance, copays, ETC. and then figure $50,000- to god knows what for a college education!! If you didn't have to pay for these things, then $5-$6 bucks a gallon wouldn't be an issue!!!!!

[beefcake]

But!!! Would you rather pay $5-$6 bucks a gallon for gas and not have to pay for health care and education?? I sure as hell would!!!! Figure an average of $300-$400 a month for healthcare insurance, copays, ETC. and then figure $50,000- to god knows what for a college education!! If you didn't have to pay for these things, then $5-$6 bucks a gallon wouldn't be an issue!!!!!

that would be fine,

i'm spending $2500 a year for my 2 elementary kids, that $200 a month, $600 for healther care a month, and i have a 4k deductible of only which the first $1000 is covered by the dealership, so i'm at least $800 there, not to mention the college kids,

i'd much rather pay the 5 or 6 then, but see, that'll never happen cuz the money doesn't go to the government, it goes to a few select greedy billionaires

[Gene]

But!!! Would you rather pay $5-$6 bucks a gallon for gas and not have to pay for health care and education?? I sure as hell would!!!! Figure an average of $300-$400 a month for healthcare insurance, copays, ETC. and then figure $50,000- to god knows what for a college education!! If you didn't have to pay for these things, then $5-$6 bucks a gallon wouldn't be an issue!!!!!

No, I would not.

I'm healthy and have no kids. Why the hell should I pay extra so that sick people or people who opt to have children get that shit? I can save my own money for education, and I can get my own health insurance.

This entitlement, "other people should pay for it" mentality is why this country is the way it is today.

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

No, I would not.

I'm healthy and have no kids. Why the hell should I pay extra so that sick people or people who opt to have children get that shit? I can save my own money for education, and I can get my own health insurance.

This entitlement, "other people should pay for it" mentality is why this country is the way it is today.


That's sort of a contradiction...if the country is this way because people get things for free, why do i have cavities and health problems i can't pay for? Where's my free health care?

I think for the better of the country as a whole would be why you would want to do it, but with no kids or dependents i guess you wouldn't understand (and i don't mean that as an insult..)

[k062693w]

No, I would not.

I'm healthy and have no kids. Why the hell should I pay extra so that sick people or people who opt to have children get that shit? I can save my own money for education, and I can get my own health insurance.

This entitlement, "other people should pay for it" mentality is why this country is the way it is today.

NO!!!! It's the mentality of people like you that think I WILL DO IT MYSELF that has pulled this country apart, Rather then pulling together to help out those in NEED ( and by that I mean people that have had a run of bad luck and not people that are just trying to beat the system)!!!
And figure if you pay for your own education what it will cost, Certainly a lot more then what you will pay with gas @ $5-$6 bucks a gallon!!!!

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Oh and i will also add....you're healthy now....but what if like me you were hit with some crazy phantom illness resulting in over 30k in medical bills? Life isn't always easy and people don't always bring things on themselves. Even with insurance i got royally screwed and not a single person gives a damn about my credit being destroyed because of it. At the time i was making 45k a year...now i'm F'in unemployed.

[Black92LX]

sure we can bitch, it's the attitude of look at everyone else

all of the money that millions of us are paying to gas are going to a couple hundred people making them billionaires,

so what some pay more,

some pay less, i for one think it's crap and someone needs to start takin ceo's out

It's comments like this that I find to be crazy.
We live in a capitalistic society. Aren't businesses supposed to make as much as possible??
Why are we faulting the companies for prospering? If they were breaking the law we would have a different problem to deal with on our hands. But why fault those are making a business do what it supposed to do make money???
Where is it stated that we are supposed to have cheap gas???
Terry if people feel you are charging too much for a car they will walk away and not buy it. If you think gas prices are too high then stop buying. But I am guessing that one is not at that point yet.
Gas is an integral part of most everyones everyday life. Is it a necessity not in the fashion that we use it. We have become dependent upon it. But being dependent upon it does not make it a necessity.
We just have to change our priorities a little bit. My fun times used to be taking the mustang out in the country. Now I go take a walk, ride a bike, or take out the Kayak.

And in all reality if you adjust for inflation gas prices are running about the same as they always have been.
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Inflation_adjusted_gasoline_price.jpg

Everyone wants to get mad at the oil companies. Why I am not really sure.
We live in a capitalistic economy. They are making profits that is what a company is supposed to be doing.
They are not in business for you and never have been and I don't understand why people think they should be cutting us a break. I don't fault them at all. They will charge the prices the consumers are willing to pay. At this point we are still buying gas at the same rate as we always have been. If you don't like the prices DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT!!!!!

If you want to get technical Oil Companies Gross Profit margins aren't all that high. It may seem that way because the media never places a gross profit margin in their reports. They just give the "billions" in profits they receive.

Lets take a look at Exxon Mobil:
Gross Profit Margin1: 43.3%
EBIT Margin2: 18.7%
EBITDA Margin3: 18.5%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin4: 18.6%
52 week Range on stock price: 69.02 - 95.27
Market Cap: 481.04B

Now lets take a look at 5 technologies companies

Apple Inc:
Gross Profit Margin: 38.1%
EBIT Margin: 18.7%
EBITDA Margin: 17.7%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 18.7%
52 week Range on stock price: 83.75 - 202.96
Market Cap: 114.17B

Google:
Gross Profit Margin: 69.3%
EBIT Margin: 32.2%
EBITDA Margin: 33.9%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 32.2%
52 week Range on stock price: 437.00 - 747.24
Market Cap: 148.98B

Yahoo:
Gross Profit Margin: 66.6%
EBIT Margin: 16.7%
EBITDA Margin: 21.4%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 16.7%
52 week Range on stock price: 18.58 - 34.08
Market Cap: 39.26B

Intel Corp
Gross Profit Margin: 62.5%
EBIT Margin: 21.6%
EBITDA Margin: 32.8%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 21.5%
52 week Range on stock price: 18.05 - 27.99
Market Cap: 118.60B

Microsoft:
Gross Profit Margin: 81.4%
EBIT Margin: 39.3%
EBITDA Margin: 39.9%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 39.3%
52 week Range on stock price: 26.60 - 37.50
Market Cap: 259.94B

Gross Profit Margin (Profit Margin After Cost of Goods Sold): Revenues minus cost of goods sold, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage
2EBIT Margin: Earnings before interest and taxes, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage.
3EBITDA Margin: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, divided by revenues, expressed as a percentage.
4Pre-Tax Profit Margin: The pre-tax earnings from continuing operations (not including discontinued or extraordinary items) divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage.

Now 4 of these 5 companies have a gross profit margin of almost 20% higher than that of Exxon Mobil's. Why are so many people up in arms over the oil companies but don't say a word about the profit margins of these other companies? And that is only 4 companies in the technology field. There are compnaies in every field making larger profit margins than the oil companies.

[dedpedal]

Got this today.

"I want to go down on you and make you extremely happy.Then come back up slowly and F%^# you real good.
Yours truely,
Gas prices"

[mustang8998]

It's comments like this that I find to be crazy.
We live in a capitalistic society. Aren't businesses supposed to make as much as possible??
Why are we faulting the companies for prospering? If they were breaking the law we would have a different problem to deal with on our hands. But why fault those are making a business do what it supposed to do make money???
Where is it stated that we are supposed to have cheap gas???
Terry if people feel you are charging too much for a car they will walk away and not buy it. If you think gas prices are too high then stop buying. But I am guessing that one is not at that point yet.
Gas is an integral part of most everyones everyday life. Is it a necessity not in the fashion that we use it. We have become dependent upon it. But being dependent upon it does not make it a necessity.
We just have to change our priorities a little bit. My fun times used to be taking the mustang out in the country. Now I go take a walk, ride a bike, or take out the Kayak.

And in all reality if you adjust for inflation gas prices are running about the same as they always have been.
http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Inflation_adjusted_gasoline_price.jpg

Everyone wants to get mad at the oil companies. Why I am not really sure.
We live in a capitalistic economy. They are making profits that is what a company is supposed to be doing.
They are not in business for you and never have been and I don't understand why people think they should be cutting us a break. I don't fault them at all. They will charge the prices the consumers are willing to pay. At this point we are still buying gas at the same rate as we always have been. If you don't like the prices DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT!!!!!

If you want to get technical Oil Companies Gross Profit margins aren't all that high. It may seem that way because the media never places a gross profit margin in their reports. They just give the "billions" in profits they receive.

Lets take a look at Exxon Mobil:
Gross Profit Margin1: 43.3%
EBIT Margin2: 18.7%
EBITDA Margin3: 18.5%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin4: 18.6%
52 week Range on stock price: 69.02 - 95.27
Market Cap: 481.04B

Now lets take a look at 5 technologies companies

Apple Inc:
Gross Profit Margin: 38.1%
EBIT Margin: 18.7%
EBITDA Margin: 17.7%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 18.7%
52 week Range on stock price: 83.75 - 202.96
Market Cap: 114.17B

Google:
Gross Profit Margin: 69.3%
EBIT Margin: 32.2%
EBITDA Margin: 33.9%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 32.2%
52 week Range on stock price: 437.00 - 747.24
Market Cap: 148.98B

Yahoo:
Gross Profit Margin: 66.6%
EBIT Margin: 16.7%
EBITDA Margin: 21.4%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 16.7%
52 week Range on stock price: 18.58 - 34.08
Market Cap: 39.26B

Intel Corp
Gross Profit Margin: 62.5%
EBIT Margin: 21.6%
EBITDA Margin: 32.8%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 21.5%
52 week Range on stock price: 18.05 - 27.99
Market Cap: 118.60B

Microsoft:
Gross Profit Margin: 81.4%
EBIT Margin: 39.3%
EBITDA Margin: 39.9%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin: 39.3%
52 week Range on stock price: 26.60 - 37.50
Market Cap: 259.94B

Gross Profit Margin (Profit Margin After Cost of Goods Sold): Revenues minus cost of goods sold, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage
2EBIT Margin: Earnings before interest and taxes, divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage.
3EBITDA Margin: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, divided by revenues, expressed as a percentage.
4Pre-Tax Profit Margin: The pre-tax earnings from continuing operations (not including discontinued or extraordinary items) divided by revenue, expressed as a percentage.

Now 4 of these 5 companies have a gross profit margin of almost 20% higher than that of Exxon Mobil's. Why are so many people up in arms over the oil companies but don't say a word about the profit margins of these other companies? And that is only 4 companies in the technology field. There are compnaies in every field making larger profit margins than the oil companies.

Very good post, Jeremy.

Most people don't think the oil companies should make money. (And I'm sure some of these folks have a 401K, tied to BO!)

And, in fact, the government takes a higher percentage of your fuel dollars, than the oil companies. But, yet they (the government), want to investigate Big Oil!

The media has everyone, all up in arms. "We're in a recession",....no, we are not! It takes two quarters, of negative growth, to be a recession. "Oil companies, are robbing us". "OPEC has us by the short ones". It never ends.

[Black92LX]

our biggest problem currently is the value of a dollar vs. foreign currency.
It's at an all time low and it just keeps getting worse but that can be thanked by the Federal Reserve and them continuing to cut interest rates.
Though some interest rate cuts have been necessary as of recent I feel they are doing it too frequently.

It's really just the natural flow of economics. We have had a killer economy since the mid 80s. Pretty much my entire life.
The economy is on a current down turn and will be for a few years. But it will make it's way back. It's a natural cycle it will never stay high and it will never stay low.
The sky is not falling though the media would have you believe as much. Or nation has been in far worse states of economic affairs and the will power of the American people pulled us out and I have faith that it will happen again. It just takes a little time.

Don't get me wrong here I don't like paying the high gas prices and wish they were lower, but I am not going to fault a company for making all that they can legally.

[Rick93coupe]

Black92lx, your spot on. Most people are programed and repeat what they hear from the mainstream media. Its a tough mentality to beat.

[beefcake]

i'm not against them making money, but weren't they making hundreds of millions if not billions already?

technology products have come down a ton from when i was younger, you get a hell of a lot more for your money

as far as 401k, i told em to put me in everything oil and i still am negative for the year

the problem is that oil really should be regulated because it is a necessity, you can't live without it in today's society.

for christs sakes, the government goes after bill gates because he puts a frikin browser on the operating software and charge him what, millions or something

why not take the millions in concessions to the billion dollar oil companies and pass it on to us

what about the guy makin minimum wage, no health insurance, driving 30 minutes to get to work, and takes his first half of the day just to afford to get back and forth

[Black92LX]

i'm not against them making money, but weren't they making hundreds of millions if not billions already?

technology products have come down a ton from when i was younger, you get a hell of a lot more for your money

as far as 401k, i told em to put me in everything oil and i still am negative for the year

the problem is that oil really should be regulated because it is a necessity, you can't live without it in today's society.

for christs sakes, the government goes after bill gates because he puts a frikin browser on the operating software and charge him what, millions or something

why not take the millions in concessions to the billion dollar oil companies and pass it on to us

what about the guy makin minimum wage, no health insurance, driving 30 minutes to get to work, and takes his first half of the day just to afford to get back and forth

What about all the years that the oil companies made very little?? Like the 70s and 80s when they were restructuring all the refineries???

As for your minimum wage job fella. That's his own fault. In most cases I am sure there are at least 10 jobs within walking distance where he could make minimum wage.

Again you failed to answer my question why should the Oil companies function any different than any other company in the free market?? Why should they limit themselves??
One could argue cars are a necessary in life what if people wanted to come in and tell you how much you could make when you sell a car??

It runs right along the lines of the health care argument. Where does anyone feel they should be granted health care by anyone at a discounted rate??
You have got to pay to play.

[beefcake]

What about all the years that the oil companies made very little?? Like the 70s and 80s when they were restructuring all the refineries???

As for your minimum wage job fella. That's his own fault. In most cases I am sure there are at least 10 jobs within walking distance where he could make minimum wage.

Again you failed to answer my question why should the Oil companies function any different than any other company in the free market?? Why should they limit themselves??
One could argue cars are a necessary in life what if people wanted to come in and tell you how much you could make when you sell a car??

It runs right along the lines of the health care argument. Where does anyone feel they should be granted health care by anyone at a discounted rate??
You have got to pay to play.

so, you don't feel it's right to have a fair price on health care if not government paid health care.

weren't the oil companies regulated until regan?

no one market controls the overall effect of this country as the oil companies.

my mom has had a decently successful dump truck business for years, and so did my brother

my brother has already been forced out of business and my folks are close to it,

why, gas prices, is it their fault? no, they simply cannot afford to operate,

every price in every market is inflating, why, gas prices

[Black92LX]

so, you don't feel it's right to have a fair price on health care if not government paid health care.
weren't the oil companies regulated until regan?
no one market controls the overall effect of this country as the oil companies.
my mom has had a decently successful dump truck business for years, and so did my brother
my brother has already been forced out of business and my folks are close to it,
why, gas prices, is it their fault? no, they simply cannot afford to operate,
every price in every market is inflating, why, gas prices

1st off individual health care is by no means a job of the government. Regulations are necessary. Regulations falling under the FDA making sure drugs and procedures are safe but should have no bearing on the cost.
Drug companies make new drugs and procedures in the event to make money. Money and profits are their motivation. Take out the profit what is the motivation to make health care better?
Health care should be in no way ran by the government and it defiantly should not be "Free".

I never stated that the oil companies shouldn't be regulated. They are extremely regulated. If not you would see drilling in ANWAR and other deposits across the nation.

But the government setting price ceilings is dangerous. Regulations need to fall under health and safety but not how much money a company can make.

You move towards Socialism and Communism if you allow the free market to be controlled by the government. Ask anyone from the following countries how they enjoy they government control.
Nazi Germany
Russia China
Cuba
Like I stated in prior posts we have had gas prices this high in the past. Companies went under, it's going to happen that is the nature of the beast.
It's not always going to be a booming economy.

Though you answered your ow question. I highlighted it for you.
There are many reasons why everything is rising. Biofuels is a big reasoning as well.

It takes almost 400 pounds of corn to make 1 gallon of ethanol. Yet the governement is MANDATING that so much be saved and used for ethanol production and our food prices are on a huge increase as well.
Government regulations still a good idea???

[beefcake]

drug companies and doctors have no interest in curing anything

for christs sakes, cancer is the number 2 gross world product,

why would you want to cure that?

every time i've been to the doctor, over the past 3 years, they have prescribed me some new bullshit antibiotic, that isn't covered fully by my plan, even though there are 50 others that are.

i was in nutrition for 15 years, and all you see is the payoffs to get natural products that work banned, everything is money motivated.

health care / doctors, and oil are 2 of my biggest annoyances, sorry

[Black92LX]

drug companies and doctors have no interest in curing anything

for christs sakes, cancer is the number 2 gross world product,

why would you want to cure that?

every time i've been to the doctor, over the past 3 years, they have prescribed me some new bullshit antibiotic, that isn't covered fully by my plan, even though there are 50 others that are.

i was in nutrition for 15 years, and all you see is the payoffs to get natural products that work banned, everything is money motivated.

health care / doctors, and oil are 2 of my biggest annoyances, sorry

what makes you think the Federal governement has any motivation to cure anything????????
When was the last time the governement created anything in the medical field.
I don't have the number sin front of me but I believe the FDA is responsible for the invention of FOUR medications.

Also if you don't like what your doctor is prescribing talk to them about it and if they aren't doing what you like. GO TO A DIFFERENT ONE! You currently have that choice. If the governement takes over you would have even less control. Sure you wouldn't pay for the visit out of your pocket. Though actually you would it would come from your drastically increased taxes.

I will pose the same question about healthcare as I do Oil. WHY SHOULD THEY BE CUTTING YOU BREAKS?????? Why is it anyones responsibility to cut their profits to help you out???

We're all in the same boat. But please please please provide me with ONE example where something run by the governement did better than that done by the free market. Please give me one example.

Sure we have to pay for things but the quality of things that we get from the free market far out weigh that of the quality of that the governement supplies. Take governement housing for example. Do you want to live in HUD housing????? Why not?? It's cheap if mot free, hell there are some people that get paid to live there.

There is/was only one example I can think of and that is the military though with companies like Blackwater if one were to scale the numbers of Blackwater to the numbers of the US military. Blackwater has far better equipment and is far better trained. Why do you think we contract them out to protect all of our dignitaries???

Ok the space program might be another but with the plans that Virgin has I see that changing tides here too.

[Trey87stang]

How about this one. At gas pumps they're gonna start showing porn so you can watch some one else being f***ed at the same time you are.

[dedpedal]

I asked my bank loan officer for a home morgtage so I could fill my tank.

Seriously tho. If my internet or cable bill went up and down like fuel prices, I wouldnt have them. I allready do what I can to save on gas by doing as much erands on my way home from work as I can. Every great now and then, Ill splurge and drive somewhere just for the fun of it.

[02mingryGT]

This entitlement, "other people should pay for it" mentality is why this country is the way it is today.


Nice Gene! :bigthumb:bigthumb

[02mingryGT]

what makes you think the Federal governement has any motivation to cure anything????????
When was the last time the governement created anything in the medical field.
I don't have the number sin front of me but I believe the FDA is responsible for the invention of FOUR medications.

Also if you don't like what your doctor is prescribing talk to them about it and if they aren't doing what you like. GO TO A DIFFERENT ONE! You currently have that choice. If the governement takes over you would have even less control. Sure you wouldn't pay for the visit out of your pocket. Though actually you would it would come from your drastically increased taxes.

I will pose the same question about healthcare as I do Oil. WHY SHOULD THEY BE CUTTING YOU BREAKS?????? Why is it anyones responsibility to cut their profits to help you out???

We're all in the same boat. But please please please provide me with ONE example where something run by the governement did better than that done by the free market. Please give me one example.

Sure we have to pay for things but the quality of things that we get from the free market far out weigh that of the quality of that the governement supplies. Take governement housing for example. Do you want to live in HUD housing????? Why not?? It's cheap if mot free, hell there are some people that get paid to live there.

There is/was only one example I can think of and that is the military though with companies like Blackwater if one were to scale the numbers of Blackwater to the numbers of the US military. Blackwater has far better equipment and is far better trained. Why do you think we contract them out to protect all of our dignitaries???

Ok the space program might be another but with the plans that Virgin has I see that changing tides here too.

Great responses Black. But basically ALOT of peoples mentality when something happens is it's always someone else's fault. Those of you who know who you are need to go look in the mirror. I mean give me a break....the guy on mininmun wage? WHO's fault is that? I'd bet his. And yes I'm not into supporting deadbeats either so if that's tearing apart the country(:lol:) then OH WELL.

And for those who have had tough times....I understand somewhat how you feel. I've been laid off three times in the past year and a half and lost my house in the process. In fact this last job I have the choice of getting laid off or moving to Atlanta. I'll probably go just because I'm tired of looking for a freaking job up here. Apparently they want me to real bad since I'm at the "top of the list" of people to relocate. :lol: yeah just pay me. Back to the point, I don't nor have I ever expected the government to bail me out, find me a job, pay my bills or get me another house. I sucked it up and moved on. And to blame a doctor for prescribing you a med that isn't covered and then bitching about it is retarded. Try this next time: "Doc that isn't on my list so you need to find something else". WOW.

[Black92LX]

Seriously tho. If my internet or cable bill went up and down like fuel prices, I wouldnt have them.

I was paying more for cable then I was gas. So I canceled it and got me a $20 set of rabbit ears.
Still get HD:bigthumb

[mustang8998]

Jeremy's points, are spot on. Dude gets it!

Beef, sorry about your folk's and your brother's business. The trucking industry is hurting now, for sure. BUT, for the ones hurting the most, it is because of a poor business plan. The company I drive for, is thriving. I made more money last year, than in any previous years. We have weathered tough years before. The early '90's, for example, were worse times than they are now. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, to work for a company that is making it through the hard times.