Some interesting taxation info

[Jeff88coupe]

Got this from a email I received...some interesting info.

if you want to compare with any other years, you can go to the website which shows tax info from1913 to the present.

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing. www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html



Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married maki ng 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250



It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.

[12seclx]

Good information Jeff.....

I hear alot of babblin' about Bush and how people can't wait
til' he's out of there.... I'm anxious to see what these same
people are like in about 2 years if Hillary or Barack gets in office...

:D

[Black92LX]

Of course taxes are going to be much higher when the democrats are in power.
That's a no brainer, the democrats love to take money out of the pockets of those who work and give it to those that don't.

[Rick93coupe]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in numbers.

[1badasp]

On my soapbox

I just love all the promises that are being put out there by the presidental hopefuls. Just how are they going to pay for it? hmmmm, i guess that they found a new plant species that produces money. SOMEONE has to pay the bill. That my friends, will be the working people in higher taxes.:flipoff:

Dont get me wrong, because stuff like universal health care and lower tutition for colleges would be great but not possible :booty:. The unfortunate fact is that we as a nation can't just drop iraq and afganistan. How would you like if a contractor comes in and tears your house apart, the job becomes hard and then leaves. I never thought that we should have gone in to those areas to begin with :doh:, but we're there and need to finish the job. Everyone has to remember that the news outlets shows the negitive but hardly shows the good that is going on and it sways public opinion. GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS. :cheers: I'd love to see a plan to leave those areas in a timely manner and bring our troops home.

Off my soapbox

[RIXXX93GT]

Heres the one that I love to think about at tax time.
Divorced Dad gets to spend 2 weeknights and every other weekend with his children (as long as he hasnt said or done anything to annoy said ex wife). He pays 12,500 dollars a year to the childrens mother for this "privilege" as told to him by the CSEA. He pays taxes on all his earnings, including the money he hands over to his ex wife. At the end of the year if he is not in arrears on child support he gets to claim his kids on his taxes as dependants, oops Im sorry every other year. When he fills his taxes out he gets a measly couple hundred back for a return. HIs ex wife gets a big old check for 3600 dollars from Uncle Sam...even though she never paid a dime in taxes. Thats my tax rant...who else is feelin me?

[NXcoupe]

Heres the one that I love to think about at tax time.
Divorced Dad gets to spend 2 weeknights and every other weekend with his children (as long as he hasnt said or done anything to annoy said ex wife). He pays 12,500 dollars a year to the childrens mother for this "privilege" as told to him by the CSEA. He pays taxes on all his earnings, including the money he hands over to his ex wife. At the end of the year if he is not in arrears on child support he gets to claim his kids on his taxes as dependants, oops Im sorry every other year. When he fills his taxes out he gets a measly couple hundred back for a return. HIs ex wife gets a big old check for 3600 dollars from Uncle Sam...even though she never paid a dime in taxes. Thats my tax rant...who else is feelin me?

You know I am! I'm in the same boat. It is a situation that has to change, equality doesn't mean more equal for some. Children should be equally shared by mom and dad, and the dad paying the child support should get the tax credit every year. Off my soap box. Women are just more organized politically than men are.

[Mista Bone]

Heres the one that I love to think about at tax time.
Divorced Dad gets to spend 2 weeknights and every other weekend with his children (as long as he hasnt said or done anything to annoy said ex wife). He pays 12,500 dollars a year to the childrens mother for this "privilege" as told to him by the CSEA. He pays taxes on all his earnings, including the money he hands over to his ex wife. At the end of the year if he is not in arrears on child support he gets to claim his kids on his taxes as dependants, oops Im sorry every other year. When he fills his taxes out he gets a measly couple hundred back for a return. HIs ex wife gets a big old check for 3600 dollars from Uncle Sam...even though she never paid a dime in taxes. Thats my tax rant...who else is feelin me?

Been there, 6 weeks of arrearage left. Guess my ex-wife will finally have to get a job.

Wait, forget that, she has a thrid husband to milk it off of.

[dedpedal]

Good info Jeff.

[IWRBB]

Heres the one that I love to think about at tax time.
Divorced Dad gets to spend 2 weeknights and every other weekend with his children (as long as he hasnt said or done anything to annoy said ex wife). He pays 12,500 dollars a year to the childrens mother for this "privilege" as told to him by the CSEA. He pays taxes on all his earnings, including the money he hands over to his ex wife. At the end of the year if he is not in arrears on child support he gets to claim his kids on his taxes as dependants, oops Im sorry every other year. When he fills his taxes out he gets a measly couple hundred back for a return. HIs ex wife gets a big old check for 3600 dollars from Uncle Sam...even though she never paid a dime in taxes. Thats my tax rant...who else is feelin me?

You gotta know when to pull out. :sukit:

[Gearhead]

Got this from a email I received...some interesting info.

if you want to compare with any other years, you can go to the website which shows tax info from1913 to the present.

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing. www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html



Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married maki ng 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250



It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.

This email's been floating around for awhile now and I'm not a big Bill Clinton fan, but those tax rates are incorrect.

Here are the 1999 tax rates:
Single w/30k taxable income = tax of $5,060
Single w/50k taxable income = tax of $10,660
Single w/75k taxable income = tax of $18,037
Married w/60k taxable income = tax of $11,211
Married w/75k taxable income = tax of $15,411

I don't believe those 2008 rates are exactly correct either....

[Black Hole]

Got this from a email I received...some interesting info.

if you want to compare with any other years, you can go to the website which shows tax info from1913 to the present.

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing. www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html



Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married maki ng 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250



It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.
I got this in an email today...pretty interesting.

Shitty thing is that instead of paying money in taxes, I'm taking a hit to my property values and I'm paying $3.50/gal for gas in the Cobra. :mad:

[Rick93coupe]

This email's been floating around for awhile now and I'm not a big Bill Clinton fan, but those tax rates are incorrect.

Here are the 1999 tax rates:
Single w/30k taxable income = tax of $5,060
Single w/50k taxable income = tax of $10,660
Single w/75k taxable income = tax of $18,037
Married w/60k taxable income = tax of $11,211
Married w/75k taxable income = tax of $15,411

I don't believe those 2008 rates are exactly correct either....

Where are you getting your info from?

[5.0calypso93lx]

On my soapbox

I just love all the promises that are being put out there by the presidental hopefuls. Just how are they going to pay for it? hmmmm, i guess that they found a new plant species that produces money. SOMEONE has to pay the bill. That my friends, will be the working people in higher taxes.:flipoff:

Dont get me wrong, because stuff like universal health care and lower tutition for colleges would be great but not possible :booty:. The unfortunate fact is that we as a nation can't just drop iraq and afganistan. How would you like if a contractor comes in and tears your house apart, the job becomes hard and then leaves. I never thought that we should have gone in to those areas to begin with :doh:, but we're there and need to finish the job. Everyone has to remember that the news outlets shows the negitive but hardly shows the good that is going on and it sways public opinion. GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS. :cheers: I'd love to see a plan to leave those areas in a timely manner and bring our troops home.

Off my soapbox

How is universal health care "great" in any way??

[mustangboy]

How is universal health care "great" in any way??

Hell yeah it great, it's great for those who are too lazy to work.:rolleyes:

[Mista Bone]

While we might have been paying slightly higher taxes, the national debt was nothing (thank you GWB for that fuck up!) and now we are getting raped on gasoline and other items.

BTW those numbers are for TAXIBLE income after standard deductions, three dependents, mortgage, etc.

[Goober]

How is universal health care "great" in any way??
Haven't we been waiting 16 years for that?


Way to go Bill. The saps are going to fall for it again.

[Maximus]

You know I am! I'm in the same boat. It is a situation that has to change, equality doesn't mean more equal for some. Children should be equally shared by mom and dad, and the dad paying the child support should get the tax credit every year. Off my soap box. Women are just more organized politically than men are.


BULLSHIT!!! I pay for alot of things for my step-daughter!! Why should HE get the write off when he pays nothing except for insurance? She stays with us for most of the week and we feed and clothe her and pay her tuition for school. He gets her on weekends...so that entitles him to every other year for right offs?? Fuck that.

Dads should step up for their kids, regardless of what their exs have to say.:bigthumb

[Mista Bone]

Craig, you just opened a can of whoop-ass that you'll never be able to handle.

I stepped up, had my son every possible weekend. My exwife hasn't held a full time job for 20 years, but yet she gets to sit on her fat ass and collect child support while living off another "meal ticket"...she's on her third husband.

I did get the tax writeoff every year because she couldn't make over $10,000, the son made $14,000 while in school 1/2 the year at min. wage stocking produce.

I'd rant more, but I have gout in my right hand, hard to type one handed.

oh yeah, via CSEA I'm limited to $200 a week income, reason I haven't gotten a REAL job. Make $1000 in a week, bitch exwife gets it all. She did agree to give the son $50 a week of the $115 she's getting. I didn't file taxes last year, would have gotten back $1600......you think my exwife would have given her and my son any extra? FUCK NO!

I'd rather drag it out an extra 9 months, living at home, to make sure my SON gets the money not the fat bitch exwife sitting on her ass living off my earnings.

Would have been cheaper to keep her and let her fuck every limp dick in KY........atleast I would have been around my son daily. Some of the stories he has told. HAving to stay in the living room "because of the dog" with only a game boy while she got laid.

don't read below if your easily offended.......



you've been warned!



Sorry for the rant, I gave up alot for my son to a low rent cum sucking trailer park whore.......she never swallowed for me. I was raised family first at all costs which is a BIG reason I could never afford a Stang.

Fuck the "college degree" I paid for so she could get a better job.......but she never tried to use it. Hoping we could be the "typical 9-5 2 income family"........nope I did the 72 hours a week to pay for it......while she was out getting laid.

In closing, I'm glad their is a GREAT group of women here that stand by their husbands, even race with them, I got sucked up by a low rent trailer park slut.

BTW, she still lives in the ONLY trailer park in Madiera/Indian Hill :)

[RIXXX93GT]

BULLSHIT!!! I pay for alot of things for my step-daughter!! Why should HE get the write off when he pays nothing except for insurance? She stays with us for most of the week and we feed and clothe her and pay her tuition for school. He gets her on weekends...so that entitles him to every other year for right offs?? Fuck that.

Dads should step up for their kids, regardless of what their exs have to say.:bigthumb


It sounds to me like the only Dads complaining here are the ones that have supported their children in every way!

I still shell out cash for clothes every year, school fees, movies, gas , gifts for their friends birthdays etc. Yes there are dead beat dads for sure, knowoene would have reason to call me one of them!

[02mingryGT]

While we might have been paying slightly higher taxes, the national debt was nothing (thank you GWB for that fuck up!) and now we are getting raped on gasoline and other items.

BTW those numbers are for TAXIBLE income after standard deductions, three dependents, mortgage, etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

I would say 5-6 trillion dollars of debt doesn't translate to NOTHING. The President has absolutely nothing to do with the price of gas or the economy. Billions of dollars are wasted every year. We need a line item veto.

[Gearhead]

Where are you getting your info from?

The 1999 IRS Tax Rate Tables

[Katmandu]

the democrats love to take money out of the pockets of those who work and give it to those that don't.Alot of folks have NO understanding of POVERTY. There's (30) MILLION people (old folks, disable and children included) that by NO fault over there own live in poverty. POVERTY is NOT a choice by the majority of folks that live in it. Please take the time to educate yourselves about Poverty.

This INCLUDES 200,000 HOMELESS VETERANS! :mad: There is ZERO excuses why a country as wealthy as this allows this to continue!

[Katmandu]

How is universal health care "great" in any way??Because EVERYONE gets to have access to it. NOT just those that are wealthy or fortunate to have it!

We (the insured and fortunate) are paying out the ASS now for folks that do NOT (and can't NOT afford) healthcare. I've worked in the Healthcare industry for (25) years and have witnessed for my own eyes.

The Uninsured simply use the Emergency rooms as Primary Care Clinics. They can't afford Dr's office visits and Hospital/Clinic ERs can NOT legally turn them away.

So guess WHO pays for the costs when an Uninsured person goes to the ER for a sore throat ?? YOU (the INSURED) DO !!!! Why do you thing your rates are astronomically high ??

BTW, the cost to treat a person (insured or uninsured) for a Sore throat in a Clinic and Emergency room is most likely in the neighborhood of $400-500 !!

Pay now or Pay later! No one gets anything for FREE!

Same as our Education and Criminal justice system in this country. Pay to educate folks NOW or pay later when they commit crimes!

[Mista Bone]

Since I haven't had insurance for 3 years and 4 months, I've not needed to goto the doctors.

I could use two prescripitions, but cannot afford it. Also a little to proud or stubborn to goto the free clinic.

Get my BP down and gout under control is all I need. I'm not on to goto ER for a sore throat......

I guess I have morals and some dignity......

I will admit I did almost goto the ER for last bought of gout, which is just now going away. Literally the WORST pain I've ever had in my life. This is compared to back injury, alomost losing two fingers in a press......passing a kidney stone!

But then again because of my morals and upbringing, I haven't given up. 2008 will my my year of turn around to be squarely back on my feet.

About universal health care, great idea if it works. Not working so good in Canada right now, but they also took their guns away too!

[02mingryGT]

Alot of folks have NO understanding of POVERTY. There's (30) MILLION people (old folks, disable and children included) that by NO fault over there own live in poverty. POVERTY is NOT a choice by the majority of folks that live in it. Please take the time to educate yourselves about Poverty.

This INCLUDES 200,000 HOMELESS VETERANS! :mad: There is ZERO excuses why a country as wealthy as this allows this to continue!

We're too busy spending millions on cow shit in Iowa. That and studying non-existent global warming issues.

[Katmandu]

Since I haven't had insurance for 3 years and 4 months, I've not needed to goto the doctors.

I could use two prescripitions, but cannot afford it. Also a little to proud or stubborn to goto the free clinic.

I guess I have morals and some dignity......That's a shame.

Hope you stay healthy and don't have a family to support.

Make sure you do get your Cholesterol checked periodically. There's a bunch of places now that do them by fingersticks. Should be under $20. Good Preventive medicine!

Good Preventive medicine for your body is no different than PM for your car! Don't neglect either. :HYF:

[mach_u]

Because EVERYONE gets to have access to it. NOT just those that are wealthy or fortunate to have it!

We (the insured and fortunate) are paying out the ASS now for folks that do NOT (and can't NOT afford) healthcare. I've worked in the Healthcare industry for (25) years and have witnessed for my own eyes.

The Uninsured simply use the Emergency rooms as Primary Care Clinics. They can't afford Dr's office visits and Hospital/Clinic ERs can NOT legally turn them away.

So guess WHO pays for the costs when an Uninsured person goes to the ER for a sore throat ?? YOU (the INSURED) DO !!!! Why do you thing your rates are astronomically high ??

BTW, the cost to treat a person (insured or uninsured) for a Sore throat in a Clinic and Emergency room is most likely in the neighborhood of $400-500 !!

Pay now or Pay later! No one gets anything for FREE!

Same as our Education and Criminal justice system in this country. Pay to educate folks NOW or pay later when they commit crimes!
Quite simply, anything the government touches turns to crap. IRS sucks, social security is failing FAST, our education systems leaves a lot to be desired and I could go on and on about the failures of government. The last thing they need to be doing is managing our healthcare. I wouldn't trust our government to manage a 7-11, let alone the health of our nation. We have enough dependents on our system as it is, without adding more. Those that previously weren't going in for the common cold(like Mista was suggesting) because they didn't have insurance would then be lining up in droves to seek "free" medical care. Hospitals become overcrowded and the quality of care drops across the board. It then becomes an issue of quantity not quality of care. The idea is completely preposterous! We need less government control, not more. Less hand outs, not more. :HYF::HYF:

Unfortunately, what most liberal thinkers fail to realize when talking about lifting the poor and "spreading the wealth" is that they end up killing the middle class in the process. In order to equalize, it ends up increasing the margin between the wealthy and the poor. The average joe, working 9-5, paying a mortgage, making a car payment and staying just a few weeks/months ahead of the game ends up losing big. Raising taxes to pay for such lofty ideas as public healthcare, doesn't affect those making big money. What's 100,000 out of a few million? One less exotic in the garage? However an extra couple of thousand when you are making 40k a year can be a HUGE deal. Handouts just end up making the poor more dependent and more reliant on the system(think give a man a fish/teach a man to fish). Wake up and smell the low rent! I would venture to say THE MAJORITY of those in poverty today are there because A) They are lazy and don't want to do an honest days work B) Because never applied themselves and jacked off in school C) Feel they are "entitled" to their hand out and are therefore justified in taking it. "My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny".

[Katmandu]

Quite simply, anything the government touches turns to crap. IRS sucks, social security is failing FAST, our education systems leaves a lot to be desired and I could go on and on about the failures of government. The last thing they need to be doing is managing our health care. I agree (up to a point). I am a VA employee and a Military Retiree as well. I also come from a long line of Healthcare professionals in my family. My father is a Retired MD, mother is a Retired RN and several other RNs in the family as well. I've worked P/T in several Civilian Hospitals and Clinics throughout my (25) year career. So I HAVE seen the nuts and bolts of ALL those organizations my whole life!

The VA is one most F&^%ED up organizatios in the Government! In the (5) years I've been there, I've seen Gross Mismanagement, Gross abuse of funds, ZERO accountability, ZERO Leadership!

If the General public would see what I see on a daily basis, there would be NO VA anymore! I could go on and on. :rolleyes:

All folks hear about the VA is what the media says about the waiting times for NEW Vets to get into the VA system. That part is FINALLY starting to work because of all the public scrutiny.

That said about the VA, the Vets DO get VERY decent care!! And that is ONLY as a result of the caring and compassion of the hands on Staff !! The Dayton VA has the BEST ER/ICU RNs that I have seen in my whole career!

So I whole-heartedly agree with my friend Mach_u. The Government has NO business running Healthcare! It NEEDS to be a Privatized system!

Now, I will contradict myself for this one statement. The only Government system that has got it going the Right way is the Military. :bigthumb

The USAF Health care system is the best in the world! I served (20) years in that system and it simply WORKS! It is an example of Socialized medicine at it's finest.

[Goober]

Also don't go saying that small buisnesses should have health insurance for their employee's. I come from a family of a small buisness owner. It took me leaving and going to a fortune 500 company to get insurance. Making the little guy pay for it will force a lot of them out of buisness.

But again, this shit was supposed to happen 16 years ago. I doubt it will ever happen. Just another broken champain promise by the democrats that is overlooked by the general public.


Just like they were suposed to lower gas prices when they won congress...

[Katmandu]

Those that previously weren't going in for the common cold(like Mista was suggesting) because they didn't have insurance would then be lining up in droves to seek "free" medical care. Hospitals become overcrowded and the quality of care drops across the board. What do you think is going on RIGHT now ?? :HYF:

Look how many hospital systems are going bankrupt, over crowded ERs are THE NORM!! An overwhelming amount of these patients do NOT have healther insurance! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately, what most liberal thinkers fail to realize when talking about lifting the poor and "spreading the wealth" is that they end up killing the middle class in the process. In order to equalize, it ends up increasing the margin between the wealthy and the poor. The average joe, working 9-5, paying a mortgage, making a car payment and staying just a few weeks/months ahead of the game ends up losing big. Sounds EXACTLY like what the Conservative Party does! What have the Republicans done in the past (8) years to make the system any better ?? Name ONE thing! ONE !


Handouts just end up making the poor more dependent and more reliant on the system(think give a man a fish/teach a man to fish). Wake up and smell the low rent! How do you teach them if the CAN'T AFFORD SCHOOL ????? :rolleyes:


I would venture to say THE MAJORITY of those in poverty today are there because

A) They are lazy and don't want to do an honest days work
B) Because never applied themselves and jacked off in school
C) Feel they are "entitled" to their hand out and are therefore justified in taking it.

The majority of 30 Million folks ??? :rolleyes: Don't think so.

Are there a LARGE percentage of folks that fit your description of WHY they are living in Poverty ?? Hell yes!

We do have an overwhelming amount of Bon-bon eating, Jerry Springer watching, lazy, alcoholic, drug addict, criminals in this country who ABUSE the hell out of the system! BUT! The system is NOT what it once was and is NOT as easy to collect welfare benefits as it once was!


"My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny".That's all well and good for the physically, mentally ABLE bodied folks, but I'd like to see you say that to the MAJORITY of folks that LIVE in POVERTY!!

I'm talking about the Senior Citizens, CHILDREN, Single mothers, Mental Disabled, Physically Disabled AND the 200,000+ Homeless Veterans in this Country!

How do you propose to get these folks OUT of POVERTY ? :rolleyes:

My wife is a Counselor and worked as a Social worker in her Internship in one of the POOREST areas in the State (Piqua, Ohio.) She also did the same work in the slums of Montgomery, Alabama when she was perusing her Masters Degree at AUM. She now is an Adjunct Professor at Edison State where she teaches Human Service/Business course work.

I have heard all the horror stories of folks suffering in Poverty. I have seen my wife give money out of her own pocket (MANY TIMES) so children living in poverty could have a meal! She could tell you case stories that you would say she was LYING. The suffering is enormous!!

So PLEASE TRY educating yourselves about the barriers to Poverty are before passing judgment and stereotyping these people!

It's only going to GET worse as the divide between the rich and poor grows deeper.

[Katmandu]

this shit was supposed to happen 16 years ago. I doubt it will ever happen. Just another broken champain promise by the democrats that is overlooked by the general public.

Just like they were suposed to lower gas prices when they won congress...Uh....what Political Party has been in power in this country that past a......... EIGHT YEARS ???

Oh yea! The REPUBLICANS! :rolleyes:

What the hell has George and Company done to FIX either of those problems ?????? :confused:

[RIXXX93GT]

The Democrats will not fix those problems either bub. YOu will simply see more of your money going to fix them and then watch it achieve nothing but buy more red tape and inneficient government systems. The "rich" as you call them pay more in taxes per dollar earned than anyone. This country treats its people as good or better than anywhere in the world. How many Americans do you see immigrating to other countries? Why do most in the world immigrate to America?

[Goober]

Uh....what Political Party has been in power in this country that past a......... EIGHT YEARS ???

Oh yea! The REPUBLICANS! :rolleyes:

What the hell has George and Company done to FIX either of those problems ?????? :confused:

Clinton had 8 years to come thru on his promise, bub. And now Hitlery is going to ride the same health care train into office....

I seem to remember somone leaving W. a failing economy. Someone who screwed up all of Regans economics. I can't quite put my finger on his name. I remember he was impeached, something about a stain on the dress of a chunky intern, some white water, renting out the bedroom of a former president, and a lot of shady pardons. Do you know who I am talking about?



Oh, and to fix the problems, those are called tax cuts. They stimulate things.

[Mista Bone]

Feds have cut the base interest rate which weakens the dollar, oil goes up because of this.

Thing is, the banks are RAISING mortgage rates evens after the fed rate has been cut. They are trying to make more money to cover their losses. With alot of people not paying attention to their account balances they are making money hand over fist on NWF's overdraft fees.

I'm guessing another two years of this, and it will get worse, ALOT worse. But then again three years ago when I said something about foreclouses (not just me) and a recession, no one believed me.

Welcome to 1973, only 35 years later.

That means a possible oil embargo with in a year and ONE good note, withdrawing the troops from Iraq.

[mach_u]

What do you think is going on RIGHT now ?? :HYF:

Look how many hospital systems are going bankrupt, over crowded ERs are THE NORM!! An overwhelming amount of these patients do NOT have healther insurance! :rolleyes:
You think it's bad now? I guarantee it will be worse with universal healthcare. I went 5+ years without health insurance, due to working for my dad in our small business. I finally got it when I married my wife, through her company. I went those 5 years without a Dr's visit. I didn't(still don't) go into the Dr for the common flu/cold/etc. and the only way I am going to the ER is if an ambulance takes me there or I break something. The problem is most people given the opportunity to go, who couldn't previously will go and the over crowded ERs are only going to get MUCH, MUCH WORSE!

Sounds EXACTLY like what the Conservative Party does! What have the Republicans done in the past (8) years to make the system any better ?? Name ONE thing! ONE !
If I'm not mistaken, haven't we had a majority Democratic Congress/Senate for the last couple years? I'm pretty sure they haven't done jack crap for this country! :HYF: You want to talk about expensive health care costs - how about the millions of illegals in this country mooching of the system. Yeah the left has done a fantastic job with that... Not! :rolleyes:

How do you teach them if the CAN'T AFFORD SCHOOL ????? :rolleyes:
High School? I'm pretty sure most anybody that applies themselves can stay in High School, graduate and do well for themselves. If they apply themselves there is PLENTY of financial aid available for those who really want to make something of themselves and go to college. Me? I couldn't afford to go to college because my parents made JUST enough that I couldn't get any decent grants and had no credit because we had just moved from another country so I couldn't even get a student loan. I had all of one semester at college before I had to drop out because I couldn't afford it. I did however work my butt off, and picked up a nice salary job out of high school and currently do quite well for myself.

The majority of 30 Million folks ??? :rolleyes: Don't think so.

Are there a LARGE percentage of folks that fit your description of WHY they are living in Poverty ?? Hell yes!

We do have an overwhelming amount of Bon-bon eating, Jerry Springer watching, lazy, alcoholic, drug addict, criminals in this country who ABUSE the hell out of the system! BUT! The system is NOT what it once was and is NOT as easy to collect welfare benefits as it once was!

That's all well and good for the physically, mentally ABLE bodied folks, but I'd like to see you say that to the MAJORITY of folks that LIVE in POVERTY!!

I'm talking about the Senior Citizens, CHILDREN, Single mothers, Mental Disabled, Physically Disabled AND the 200,000+ Homeless Veterans in this Country!

How do you propose to get these folks OUT of POVERTY ? :rolleyes:

My wife is a Counselor and worked as a Social worker in her Internship in one of the POOREST areas in the State (Piqua, Ohio.) She also did the same work in the slums of Montgomery, Alabama when she was perusing her Masters Degree at AUM. She now is an Adjunct Professor at Edison State where she teaches Human Service/Business course work.

I have heard all the horror stories of folks suffering in Poverty. I have seen my wife give money out of her own pocket (MANY TIMES) so children living in poverty could have a meal! She could tell you case stories that you would say she was LYING. The suffering is enormous!!

So PLEASE TRY educating yourselves about the barriers to Poverty are before passing judgment and stereotyping these people!

It's only going to GET worse as the divide between the rich and poor grows deeper.

I am not going to waste my breath trying to respond to every line item but I want to break it down simply for you. Before you decide to lecture me on how I need to educate myself on poverty, let me fill you in on a little secret... My family moved to this country with ZERO dollars in the bank. They had a close friend screw them out of everything they owned in New Zealand. Both of my parents had a high school education. We lived in my grandparents basement in Mt Auburn(close to U.C) for over a year. Basically, the friggin ghetto. My parents worked hard, my dad found a job and worked his butt off. We eventually rented a house out towards Eastgate, my dad went into business for himself and now makes a tidy income and we have a family business. My parents divorced a few years back but my mom is now the director of a small television station and does quite well for herself.

Cliff notes: New country, no money, no education - success story. I realize there are those that are physically disabled and can not work, however I also know that there are plenty of those on disability that are fully capable of working but choose not to. We had a family acquaintance when I was in HS that was on "disability" for an old hip issue but had almost no mobility issues. She was given the opportunity to attend college for free but didn't, had a free 3 bedroom condo, food stamps, etc, etc and sat on her ass and did nothing. She had a bunch of nice stuff, nicer tv, and so on than we did and it was painful to realize that we were paying for it! Hell, I worked with a guy a few years back who did construction his whole life and was in a bad accident and lost all ability to walk. Did he sponge of the system? No, he sat down and taught himself to do Computer Programming. Had almost no time in front of a computer before, but had a fantastic work ethic and within a couple of years was making fantastic money! Simply put, there are enough opportunities in this country that you can make anything of yourself and your situation IF you aren't lazy, have drive and motivation. Yes there are plenty in this country that simply can not work and need assistance but I hold true to my original statement - the MAJORITY of the poor in this country could change their situation IF they had drive and motivation.

[Katmandu]

This country treats its people as good or better than anywhere in the world.So why are the 200,000 HOMELESS Veterans RIGHT NOW ??

There is NO EXCUSE that you or anyone else can give to make that FACT OK. NONE! :mad:

If you come up with a good excuse, I'll be certain to tell the NEXT Homeless Veteran I see (on a weekly basis) here at the Dayton VA!

At least once a week on my way into work (3rd Shift), I walk thru the VA's ER Waiting area, I pass by these Veteran's SLEEPING here. The VA cops are kind enough to turn a blind eye (for just a few hours), to allow these Veteran's to have a roof over their head and get some rest. In the AM, they are driven to the local Homeless shelter.

As RICH and WEALTHY as this country is we have a moral obligation to take care of those who are UNABLE to care for themselves PERIOD! It is a National DISGRACE!

[Katmandu]

I seem to remember somone leaving W. a failing economy. Someone who screwed up all of Regans economics. I can't quite put my finger on his name. I remember he was impeached, something about a stain on the dress of a chunky intern, some white water, renting out the bedroom of a former president, and a lot of shady pardons. Do you know who I am talking about?Since your memory is so razor sharp, do remember this morally sticken man's Administration also left W. with a BALANCED BUDGET ???????

Didn't think you remembered that little fact. :rolleyes:

George and Co. have racked up record Federal Deficits since they came to power!


According to the U.S. Treasury website, the following are recent annual additions to the U.S. public debt.

Fiscal year 2001 (begins 10/01/00) $144.6 billion
Fiscal year 2002 (begins 10/01/01) $409.3 billion
Fiscal year 2003 (begins 10/01/02) $589.0 billion
Fiscal year 2004 (begins 10/01/03) $605.0 billion
Fiscal year 2005 (begins 10/01/04) $523.2 billion
Fiscal year 2006 (begins 10/01/05) $536.5 billion
Fiscal year 2007 (begins 10/01/06) $514.1 billion

The cumulative debt of the United States in the past 5 completed fiscal years was approximately $2,767.8 billion, or about 30% of the total national debt of ~$9.25 trillion

Copied from --->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Where's this money coming from ???

Oh yeah! Our Grandkids Generation will PAY FOR IT!

Republican's want to be the Party of the HIGHEST MORALS yet they sell out their Grandkids future! How moral is that "BUB" ?

[Katmandu]

You want to talk about expensive health care costs - how about the millions of illegals in this country mooching of the system. Yeah the left has done a fantastic job with that... Not! :rolleyes:BOTH Party's are to blame for this mess. Not ONE Party will correct it. Everything comes down to compromises in the end.


I did however work my butt off, and picked up a nice salary job out of high school and currently do quite well for myself.

Before you decide to lecture me on how I need to educate myself on poverty, let me fill you in on a little secret... My family moved to this country with ZERO dollars in the bank. They had a close friend screw them out of everything they owned in New Zealand. Both of my parents had a high school education. We lived in my grandparents basement in Mt Auburn(close to U.C) for over a year. Basically, the friggin ghetto. My parents worked hard, my dad found a job and worked his butt off. We eventually rented a house out towards Eastgate, my dad went into business for himself and now makes a tidy income and we have a family business. My parents divorced a few years back but my mom is now the director of a small television station and does quite well for herself. That is truely commendable for both you and your family. :bigthumb


Cliff notes: New country, no money, no education - success story. I realize there are those that are physically disabled and can not work, however I also know that there are plenty of those on disability that are fully capable of working but choose not to.

Simply put, there are enough opportunities in this country that you can make anything of yourself and your situation IF you aren't lazy, have drive and motivation.

Yes there are plenty in this country that simply can not work and need assistance but I hold true to my original statement - the MAJORITY of the poor in this country could change their situation IF they had drive and motivation. You give several examples of EXTREME cases at both ends of the spectrum of those that receive Government assistance. Yet that is NOT the MAJORITY of those living in POVERTY! Believe what you may, but these cases are the EXTREMES and NOT the NORM!

I too am a First Generation American and son of a German Immigrant. My father, aunt and Grandparents ESCAPED NATZI Germany back in 1937. The immigrated here LEGALLY (like most back then) thru Ellis Island.

My father was (13) at the time and only (5) years later (age 18) Enlisted in the US Army. He then FOUGHT AGAINST his HOMELAND!!! He survived the War and then used the GI Bill to go to college. He worked his ass off and became a Medical Doctor. My aunt worked her ass off an ended up becoming the Art Director of a little magazine called Good Housekeeping.

So yea, it was and IS still possible to rise from the ashes of poverty and reach great heights in this country. Those are some of the reasons this country IS SO GREAT!

Like I said, your's, your family and my family's experience are MOST certainly the extreme examples of what CAN be done! They are NOT the norm nor are they even close!

Most folks do NOT understand the plight, trials and tribulations of those that live in Poverty!! MOST folks live in denial that there are 100s of thousands of homeless people on our streets EVERY DAY! It's simply to painful too look at and ADMIT that this country has a VERY SERIOUS problem in this regard.

The opportunities that were once available are GONE !! Just ask some of your neighbors or fellow Stangbangerz here that "used" to work in manufacturing plants! Most of these plant workers ARE High School graduates themselves. What are they to do now that their plants have been boxed up and moved to MEXICO and CHINA ?? :confused:

Poverty will only INCREASE in this country as a result! No matter WHICH Political Party is in Power!

[Goober]

Since your memory is so razor sharp, do remember this morally sticken man's Administration also left W. with a BALANCED BUDGET ???????

Didn't think you remembered that little fact. :rolleyes:

George and Co. have racked up record Federal Deficits since they came to power!

Where's this money coming from ???

Oh yeah! Our Grandkids Generation will PAY FOR IT!

Republican's want to be the Party of the HIGHEST MORALS yet they sell out their Grandkids future! How moral is that "BUB" ?


Just as moral as the rest of america leaving unpaid debts for their surviving kin. It's been happening a long time before Bush got in.

Lets see here, a lot has happened to this country since W. came into office.

9/11
Wildfires
Katrina
Wildfires
Flordia hurricanes (not the team)
Space shuttle explosion
Bailout of major airlines
floods
wildfires
Afghanistan
Iraq (comletly different thread)
Still in Bosnia and Solimia (thank Slick Willy for that one)
Bridge colapse in Minnasota

How is someone suposed to pay to help out in all of these situations WITHOUT cutting precious gov't programs that the people want to keep in place? Because if we don't help out the people in need, then they're just a bunch of evil bastards.

If they leave a deficit, again, bastards.

Cutting programs? Guess what? You got it!

Bastards!

So I ask you this question Katmandu, how is one to do all of these things without:

Raising taxes
Cutting programs
helping out in national disasters
not borrowing money
defending our freedoms and borders
printing more money that deflates the dollar in the world market
cutting the wages of the working people in order to attract Asian companies to the US
Keeping our military fine tuned and updated with the best equimpment we can
AND throw in health care for every single American citizen?


If you can answer this question in a reasonable manner, I will personally write you in for my vote for president, BUB!

[Katmandu]

If you can answer this question in a reasonable manner, I will personally write you in for my vote for president, BUB! Can't have our cake and eat it too can we ? :rolleyes:

Looks like big assed storm clouds brewing on the horizon if you ask me! :eek:

Hey Bub! Make sure you write me in as an INDEPENDENT! :HYF:

[Goober]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

I would say 5-6 trillion dollars of debt doesn't translate to NOTHING. The President has absolutely nothing to do with the price of gas or the economy. Billions of dollars are wasted every year. We need a line item veto.

OMFG I cannot believe I overlooked this! Good call!

Or some kind of way to change how spening bills are written and passed. I like a case by case vote. Granted, it'll take a lot longer, but then those SOB's might actually have to stay working on things for longer than a few months a year.

And for you tree hugging hippies, it can be done electronicly. Less paperwork, more trees for other uses. It's win-freekin-win!

[Goober]

Can't have our cake and eat it too can we ? :rolleyes:

Looks like big assed storm clouds brewing on the horizon if you ask me! :eek:

Hey Bub! Make sure you write me in as an INDEPENDENT! :HYF:


I'm just trying to drag out of you what you think would be the best solution. Seriously.

[Katmandu]

You do realize that we (this country) BORROW money from CHINA to pay on the interest on the National Debt!!

I don't know about you, but that freaks me the hell OUT !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

China will OWN us sooner than we think!

That some SCARY s**t!

[Goober]

You know what freeks me the hell out?



























http://www.skinnyk.com/images/index-midget-lg.jpg
midgets with camel toe :lol:

[Katmandu]

You know what freeks me the hell out?:eek: :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol: :bigthumb

[Mista Bone]

damn, they look heavier than my exwife!

[mach_u]

So why are the 200,000 HOMELESS Veterans RIGHT NOW ??

There is NO EXCUSE that you or anyone else can give to make that FACT OK. NONE! :mad:

If you come up with a good excuse, I'll be certain to tell the NEXT Homeless Veteran I see (on a weekly basis) here at the Dayton VA!

At least once a week on my way into work (3rd Shift), I walk thru the VA's ER Waiting area, I pass by these Veteran's SLEEPING here. The VA cops are kind enough to turn a blind eye (for just a few hours), to allow these Veteran's to have a roof over their head and get some rest. In the AM, they are driven to the local Homeless shelter.

As RICH and WEALTHY as this country is we have a moral obligation to take care of those who are UNABLE to care for themselves PERIOD! It is a National DISGRACE!
I have never said there isn't a problem. I agree wholeheartedly that would should take care of our vets, our old and those that are unable to work due to a physical/mental disability. I simply said that the majority of the 30 million you quoted are in their situation because they are
A) They are lazy and don't want to do an honest days work
B) Because never applied themselves and jacked off in school
C) Feel they are "entitled" to their hand out and are therefore justified in taking it.


BOTH Party's are to blame for this mess. Not ONE Party will correct it. Everything comes down to compromises in the end.

That is truely commendable for both you and your family. :bigthumb

You give several examples of EXTREME cases at both ends of the spectrum of those that receive Government assistance. Yet that is NOT the MAJORITY of those living in POVERTY! Believe what you may, but these cases are the EXTREMES and NOT the NORM!

I too am a First Generation American and son of a German Immigrant. My father, aunt and Grandparents ESCAPED NATZI Germany back in 1937. The immigrated here LEGALLY (like most back then) thru Ellis Island.

My father was (13) at the time and only (5) years later (age 18) Enlisted in the US Army. He then FOUGHT AGAINST his HOMELAND!!! He survived the War and then used the GI Bill to go to college. He worked his ass off and became a Medical Doctor. My aunt worked her ass off an ended up becoming the Art Director of a little magazine called Good Housekeeping.

So yea, it was and IS still possible to rise from the ashes of poverty and reach great heights in this country. Those are some of the reasons this country IS SO GREAT!

Like I said, your's, your family and my family's experience are MOST certainly the extreme examples of what CAN be done! They are NOT the norm nor are they even close!

Most folks do NOT understand the plight, trials and tribulations of those that live in Poverty!! MOST folks live in denial that there are 100s of thousands of homeless people on our streets EVERY DAY! It's simply to painful too look at and ADMIT that this country has a VERY SERIOUS problem in this regard.

The opportunities that were once available are GONE !! Just ask some of your neighbors or fellow Stangbangerz here that "used" to work in manufacturing plants! Most of these plant workers ARE High School graduates themselves. What are they to do now that their plants have been boxed up and moved to MEXICO and CHINA ?? :confused:

Poverty will only INCREASE in this country as a result! No matter WHICH Political Party is in Power!
I agree both parties have done an extremely poor job managing this country. My point was to simply suggest that the fault doesn't lie entirely in one party, as you were eluding to with your "8 yrs of problems." ;) Another thing, why are our cases the extremes? Poverty is poverty and I can give you countless pages of success stories of people who came from overwhelming poverty and made something of themselves. No special leg up, just hard work and determination. The majority of welfare should be a solution to a temporary problem not a means of existence for the lazy. Aesop provided the best analogy with the Grasshopper and the Ant. Why should those of us "Ants" who work 2 or 3 jobs, make our bills and work hard all of our lives to retire(hopefully) in our 60's), have to pay for the "Grasshopper" who frittered away their existence and gets rewarded for doing so.

As for a changing job front, it is the nature of the world. My dad in the last 30 years has gone from a woodworking apprentice, sawmill operator, industrial pipe fitter, welder, travel agent, and after a myriad of other jobs/professions in between finally runs his own computer business. His dad before him worked several different types of professions as well. Both never graduated from High School. I agree 100% that there as been a large shift in manufacturing jobs in this country. My wife's company she works for provides industrial tools to automotive and other machining customers. They have seen a large drop in domestic sales as more and more gets pushed overseas. My point is economy changes, jobs change. It has done hundreds for years. Adaption and hard work is the key to success - not relying on the government to take care of you.

[5.0calypso93lx]

This INCLUDES 200,000 HOMELESS VETERANS! :mad: There is ZERO excuses why a country as wealthy as this allows this to continue!

I can't even begin to describe how much I HATE this statement.

I am so sick of people expecting hand outs because they are veterans, and this is coming from someone who served in the Army. By throwing this statement around, I honestly feel that you give military veterans a bad name.:mad: