I can race at Edgewater again

[kennebellcobra]

I'm almost legal now. I can even remove the back bar for the kids to ride.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/rollbar1.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

I still need to paint the swing outs

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/rollbar2.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

The last go fast parts I need to put on before it hits the track. It will be all solid in the rear.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/controlarms.jpg

[dedpedal]

Cool dude. I liked my MM bar but it didnt have the removable crossbar.

[kennebellcobra]

Cool dude. I liked my MM bar but it didnt have the removable crossbar.

It's not legal like that but I don't think anyone will catch it and if they do I'll put some foam padding over it.

[LXEnvy1990]

Sweet, looks good man

[bobtsgt]

thats the same thing I want to do to mine but for other reasons. Looks great though. Did you buy the cage or did someone do it for ya?

[kennebellcobra]

thats the same thing I want to do to mine but for other reasons. Looks great though. Did you buy the cage or did someone do it for ya?

I bought the cage at MD it's a Maxiumummotorsports and put it in myself, took me a weekend with painting.

[dedpedal]

It's not legal like that but I don't think anyone will catch it and if they do I'll put some foam padding over it.

Thats what I did.

[92coupe]

Looks good i have one for my coupe, After i get it running again that's my next project.

[MADMOD]

hell ya man lookin good!!:bigthumb

[95redstang]

That's what I need....

[kennebellcobra]

That's what I need....

I think you need more with a convertable

[95redstang]

I think you need more with a convertable

I called MM and they told me about the same cage you have..I'm not sure what else I would need though..I was talking to them about rules and being able to run without getting kicked out, and all they said all I needed was a 4 point...They even said I could run just a roll bar..Not sure though..
My concern with the cage was the bar that runs right behind the front seats..I take my 2 little girls and wife out for a drive with the top down when it's nice out...I just want that backseat to be useable...

[kennebellcobra]

I called MM and they told me about the same cage you have..I'm not sure what else I would need though..I was talking to them about rules and being able to run without getting kicked out, and all they said all I needed was a 4 point...They even said I could run just a roll bar..Not sure though..
My concern with the cage was the bar that runs right behind the front seats..I take my 2 little girls and wife out for a drive with the top down when it's nice out...I just want that backseat to be useable...

I think it all depends on what you plan on running. I know anything under 11.50 needs a 6 point in a hardtop and I'm pretty sure a vert needs at least an 8 maybe 10 not sure on that.

[IWRBB]

Everyone is giving you the big thumbs up, but I'm going to say what needs to be said, even if it makes me look like the bad guy.

Unless you are wearing a helmet, a rollcage is dangerous. You are far more likely to crack your skull open on a bar than the bar is to protect you in a wreck. Padded or not, that is a steel bar within inches of your brain.

When you are racing and wearing a SA helmet, that's a totally different story. The helmet is designed to hit the cage over and over in the event of a wreck and still protect your head. But, just cruising the street, putting the kids in back, that's not safe - at all.

I know it seemed like a good idea, but by putting the removable rear bar in, you sacrificed the integrity of the cage along with your safety. Plus, you still don't meet the rules. Then, planning to put kids back there with the main hoop and side bars is putting them unnecessarily at risk.

I'm not trying to bust your balls here. Kids are pretty damn important to most people and I think you may not realize how dangerous that cage really would be. Any side impact could easily slam their heads right into those side bars.

Don't get me worng, I grew up when we kids would lay up in the rear package tray of a car doing 70 MPH down the highway, so risk is all relevant. Yes, the kids are safer in the rear seat belted up with a cage than they would be climbing around some 1970's station wagon unbelted. But, all else equal, they are less safe than if there was no bar at all.

[PonymanfiveO]

Everyone is giving you the big thumbs up, but I'm going to say what needs to be said, even if it makes me look like the bad guy.

Unless you are wearing a helmet, a rollcage is dangerous. You are far more likely to crack your skull open on a bar than the bar is to protect you in a wreck. Padded or not, that is a steel bar within inches of your brain.

When you are racing and wearing a SA helmet, that's a totally different story. The helmet is designed to hit the cage over and over in the event of a wreck and still protect your head. But, just cruising the street, putting the kids in back, that's not safe - at all.

I know it seemed like a good idea, but by putting the removable rear bar in, you sacrificed the integrity of the cage along with your safety. Plus, you still don't meet the rules. Then, planning to put kids back there with the main hoop and side bars is putting them unnecessarily at risk.

I'm not trying to bust your balls here. Kids are pretty damn important to most people and I think you may not realize how dangerous that cage really would be. Any side impact could easily slam their heads right into those side bars.

Don't get me worng, I grew up when we kids would lay up in the rear package tray of a car doing 70 MPH down the highway, so risk is all relevant. Yes, the kids are safer in the rear seat belted up with a cage than they would be climbing around some 1970's station wagon unbelted. But, all else equal, they are less safe than if there was no bar at all.


Glad you got a roll bar and all, but Im with this guy.;)

[dsmawd350]

ummm...........padding?

[fst 5pto]

ummm...........padding?

Can I swing one of these bars at your face with padding on it? Missing the point.... can still hurt you very badly.

[bobtsgt]

I'd rather hit foam padding then a bare bar anyday.

[fst 5pto]

I'd rather hit foam padding then a bare bar anyday.


Well yea who wouldn't? Not the point I was making... simply even with foam padding on the bar someones getting hurt....

[bobtsgt]

well yeah there is always that possibility. its just the chance some take.

[dsmawd350]

it wouldnt crack you skull or anything im sure with thick foam padding it would be just like slamming into the b pillar or a window or something

[fst 5pto]

I understand all this... but it could still lead to potential serious matters... concusisons, etc things of that sort. But then again you take a HUGE risk racing anyways.... but its all a matter of opinion.

['92Stang]

Just put a brain bucket on, and be done with it:bangwall: :D

[MADMOD]

I am going to have to disagree......The cage could also keep the side of the car from caving in and crushing the small children in the back seat in the event of an accident. The cage is there to make the car stronger in the event of an accident. I would think it would create more of a saftey zone for the passengers by not letting the cars body and frame give as much as it would with out a cage. I would take a bump to the head over a crushed roof on my head any day of the week. Just my 2cents:D

[kennebellcobra]

I am going to have to disagree......The cage could also keep the side of the car from caving in and crushing the small children in the back seat in the event of an accident. The cage is there to make the car stronger in the event of an accident. I would think it would create more of a saftey zone for the passengers by not letting the cars body and frame give as much as it would with out a cage. I would take a bump to the head over a crushed roof on my head any day of the week. Just my 2cents:D

I was just going to say the same thing. There are good and bad points of having a cage. Do you let your kids ride a school bus? Whats right in front of them a bar wrapped in vinyl and no seat belts. How many people have been killed by airbags? Everyone takes risks everyday in your way of thinking you should only drive a volvo that rates the highest in safety. What about driving a metro? Whats safer a Mustang with a cage or a 2000 lb car in an accident. If someone flips a car and the roof crushes them should you think only if they had a cage. Everything can be debated good or bad but that wasn't what this post was about. It was to show some pics of a cage. I'm not affended by your comments but you can look at it both ways.

[Bluecrew07]

looks awesome. love roll cages

[IWRBB]

I was just going to say the same thing. There are good and bad points of having a cage. Do you let your kids ride a school bus? Whats right in front of them a bar wrapped in vinyl and no seat belts. How many people have been killed by airbags? Everyone takes risks everyday in your way of thinking you should only drive a volvo that rates the highest in safety. What about driving a metro? Whats safer a Mustang with a cage or a 2000 lb car in an accident. If someone flips a car and the roof crushes them should you think only if they had a cage. Everything can be debated good or bad but that wasn't what this post was about. It was to show some pics of a cage. I'm not affended by your comments but you can look at it both ways.

I said my piece, what I said is 100% accurate. If you choose to rationalize that it's safe, fine. No skin off my back.

You are not safer with a cage (without a helmet), rollover or not. The seatbelts in all cars are designed for rollovers. They allow you to move one way or the other to avoid be crushed by the roof. That is the reasoning behind not using a 4 point harness w/o a bar. The 4 point will not allow you to move so you HAVE to have a cage. I cannot remember the last person I've ever heard of that died from a roof crushnig in on a stock vehicle.

I did say it's all relative, so, ":rolleyes:" to the Volvo and Metro comment. Intentionally putting steel bars within a foot of your child's head is not the same as driving a car that's not the safest on the road. If you think the school bus is the same as a 3500 lb Mustang, well, they're not. Put a kid in the back of each, slam them into each other, and tell me the kid in the back of the Mustang fared just as well as the kid on the 15000 lb bus.

Again, I'm not trying to piss you off, but it's obvious you do not understand or accept the danger those bars pose to anyone sitting in that rear seat. With that, I'm done here.

[DeckerEnt]

The point was not if it is padded or not. The point is that in a side impact crash on the street, like an suv with a cell phone talking soccer mom, the kids in the back seat even belted in could hit the rear bars and get torn up. Pad or not.
Keith

[kennebellcobra]

I said my piece, what I said is 100% accurate. If you choose to rationalize that it's safe, fine. No skin off my back.

You are not safer with a cage (without a helmet), rollover or not. The seatbelts in all cars are designed for rollovers. They allow you to move one way or the other to avoid be crushed by the roof. That is the reasoning behind not using a 4 point harness w/o a bar. The 4 point will not allow you to move so you HAVE to have a cage. I cannot remember the last person I've ever heard of that died from a roof crushnig in on a stock vehicle.

I did say it's all relative, so, ":rolleyes:" to the Volvo and Metro comment. Intentionally putting steel bars within a foot of your child's head is not the same as driving a car that's not the safest on the road. If you think the school bus is the same as a 3500 lb Mustang, well, they're not. Put a kid in the back of each, slam them into each other, and tell me the kid in the back of the Mustang fared just as well as the kid on the 15000 lb bus.

Again, I'm not trying to piss you off, but it's obvious you do not understand or accept the danger those bars pose to anyone sitting in that rear seat. With that, I'm done here.

I'm not pissed off it's Ok to disagree. Heres my thoughts, the bar in the middle will not be there when the kids are in it. The side bars are next to the pillar and if we were in a side impact hard enough to hit their head on the side whats the difference between hitting a padded bar or the pillar? Heck the padded bar might keep their head from going through the glass. My point is there is no way to say whats going to happen in a crash and that cage could keep the car from crushing the side in further.

[331TwistedWedge]

its all in Gods Hands ... not to get religious on anyone, but when its time for you to check in - its simply time ...

[MADMOD]

:agree:

[bobtsgt]

do you have any more pics of the install or mabey the rear cross bar mounts and swing out mounts?

[kennebellcobra]

do you have any more pics of the install or mabey the rear cross bar mounts and swing out mounts?

The cross bar is in the first pic but I'll take some more tomarrow for ya.

[bobtsgt]

thanks. I would love to see it up close but free time is hard to come by.

[Xuzhu]

The side bars are next to the pillar and if we were in a side impact hard enough to hit their head on the side whats the difference between hitting a padded bar or the pillar?


Not to add more fuel to the fire, but the smallest impact of 5mph or even less could be enough if they are chaught off guard to cause body movement, especially if the kids are young/small.

[kennebellcobra]

Not to add more fuel to the fire, but the smallest impact of 5mph or even less could be enough if they are chaught off guard to cause body movement, especially if the kids are young/small.

Yea, but if the padded bar ain't there the pillar still is so they would hit that plus my kids are 16 and 12 so their a little bigger it's not like I'm putting toddlers back there.

[DeckerEnt]

It's not like you will be going 100 mph either. But the cell phone talking soccer mom in the large suv who could hit you is the problem. The point to all this is that kids in the rear of a car are safer. The cage is just one more thing that can be hit. I would padd it twice when the kids are back there and just be careful.
Keith

[dedpedal]

Ahh the days of standing up in the back of the jeep and holding onto the nonpadded roll bar. With all the saftey knowledge thats come about in my young life, its a miracle that any of us survived this long.

/sarcasm off

[Pops Fun]

When I was small we would drive to Ballston Spa ny, 14 to 17 hours and would sleep in the back window shelf or when we had a wagon in the back and anywhere else we could .. there were anywhere from 3 to 7 of us and we all lived through it...
I believe in being safe but all this is driving me to drink.. Wish I was home:( I would have one.

[Black Horse]

Just to jump in here on this issue - I had the chance to sit down and talk to the lead Racing Safety Engineer of GM several years ago. He had case studies and photos that would make you nausious, and that is with test dummies. He works extensively with Wright State Univ. doing sled testing and was working on head neck restraints (Hans) when I met him. He introduced me to a Professor that developed the Hans and does a LOT of work for safety development for NASCAR, SCCA, NHRA, the list goes on and on.

Bottom line - if a sanctioning body determines you need safety equipment, you probably will. The bolt-in flange type cross-bar scares the hell out of me. There is a reason why they are not legal for racing, the joint will not withstand the impact at racing speeds. By "cheating" (covering with padding) you may be save a few bucks, but is your life worth it?

On the subject of the padding he showed me case studies where a helmeted head struck a foam covered roll bar (NASCAR cage at 100 mph full side impact) and completely split the helmet in half. The SFI padding (thats the hard as a rock stuff) at least will provide limited deceleration of a hemeted head. NONE of the padding will protect an unhemeted head - his remarks was that you might as well not use padding at all. The foam padding is simply to keep you from hurting yourself getting in and out.

The roll bar system is designed to be used with proper seat harnessing as well. The extension of ones body during a crash as absolutely alarming. The possibilities of your head hitting the roll bar in your car while using a stock seat belt is enormous, even if the top bar is a foot behind your headrest.

After seeing the video and actual data, I swore that I would use the greatest level of safety I could in my race car. I personally use a FIA approved racing seat, FIA 6-point harness, welded roll cage, head and neck restraint (currently the Wright Device soon to switch to the Hans), full fire suppression, window netting, and right driver side head net.

Putting yourself at risk in your own car is one thing, do what you feel comfortable, its your life. But endangering the lives and health of your children is unforgivable. Is it worth it?

[MADMOD]

I do agree with a race car....the more safety the better....Wear jackets, helments, etc...... when you are not required to do so. You never know what is going to happen.

[Pops Fun]

Hi
Good points... If I had a race car I would definately have all the safety equiptment... BUT I don't and I don't think we are talking apples and apples... Mine is a street car that is raced at test and tune... and I think that is what we are talking about.
Anyway my .02

[kennebellcobra]

Just to jump in here on this issue - I had the chance to sit down and talk to the lead Racing Safety Engineer of GM several years ago. He had case studies and photos that would make you nausious, and that is with test dummies. He works extensively with Wright State Univ. doing sled testing and was working on head neck restraints (Hans) when I met him. He introduced me to a Professor that developed the Hans and does a LOT of work for safety development for NASCAR, SCCA, NHRA, the list goes on and on.

Bottom line - if a sanctioning body determines you need safety equipment, you probably will. The bolt-in flange type cross-bar scares the hell out of me. There is a reason why they are not legal for racing, the joint will not withstand the impact at racing speeds. By "cheating" (covering with padding) you may be save a few bucks, but is your life worth it?

On the subject of the padding he showed me case studies where a helmeted head struck a foam covered roll bar (NASCAR cage at 100 mph full side impact) and completely split the helmet in half. The SFI padding (thats the hard as a rock stuff) at least will provide limited deceleration of a hemeted head. NONE of the padding will protect an unhemeted head - his remarks was that you might as well not use padding at all. The foam padding is simply to keep you from hurting yourself getting in and out.

The roll bar system is designed to be used with proper seat harnessing as well. The extension of ones body during a crash as absolutely alarming. The possibilities of your head hitting the roll bar in your car while using a stock seat belt is enormous, even if the top bar is a foot behind your headrest.

After seeing the video and actual data, I swore that I would use the greatest level of safety I could in my race car. I personally use a FIA approved racing seat, FIA 6-point harness, welded roll cage, head and neck restraint (currently the Wright Device soon to switch to the Hans), full fire suppression, window netting, and right driver side head net.

Putting yourself at risk in your own car is one thing, do what you feel comfortable, its your life. But endangering the lives and health of your children is unforgivable. Is it worth it?

With a designated race car it is easier to go all out on safety it only has one purpose and you are at risk alot more. My car is mainly a street car and I want to make it safe but it also has to be practical and with a bar across the back was'nt practical. As far as the roll bar being cheaper, it was actually more money with the removable bar. I also bet the way I installed the bar it is safer than your normal 6pt with a welded bar. I welded the back plates to the subframe connects instead of just being hooked to the floor board.

I don't know if you looked at the pics of the cage design but their heads are not close to any bar on the sides only forward off to the side next to the pillar which a seat belt would keep them from hitting. If I was in a side collision and that bar was not there I think the pillar is just as hard as a bar with all the layers and bends. I am a very protective dad and I just do not see a added risk.

[kennebellcobra]

Heres those pics Bob

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/rollbarfloorback.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/swingoutfloormount.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/crossbar.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/kennebellcobra/backbararmrest.jpg

[kennebellcobra]

When I was small we would drive to Ballston Spa ny, 14 to 17 hours and would sleep in the back window shelf or when we had a wagon in the back and anywhere else we could .. there were anywhere from 3 to 7 of us and we all lived through it...
I believe in being safe but all this is driving me to drink.. Wish I was home:( I would have one.

I remember when we lived in Texas and everytime we went to the beach the whole neighborhood would go and we just piled in the back of my dad's truck(usually drinking a beer) drove 15 miles on the highway and nobody thought twice about it and one time there was 13 kids in the back. It was just different back then I would never dream of doing that with my kids but back then it was very different.

[bobtsgt]

thanks for the pics. are both the main hoop and door bars down into the frame connects? Is there a reason that the rear strut bars go down infront of the windows instead of back to the rear shock towers?

[Pops Fun]

I remember when we lived in Texas and everytime we went to the beach the whole neighborhood would go and we just piled in the back of my dad's truck(usually drinking a beer) drove 15 miles on the highway and nobody thought twice about it and one time there was 13 kids in the back. It was just different back then I would never dream of doing that with my kids but back then it was very different.

Yea!! They would probably throw anyone doing that in jail now!!!

[kennebellcobra]

thanks for the pics. are both the main hoop and door bars down into the frame connects? Is there a reason that the rear strut bars go down infront of the windows instead of back to the rear shock towers?

For now I just did the main hoop to the frame but I have been thinking about doing the same thing in the front on the swing mounts.

The back bar bolts through the rear inner fender with a backing plate. It was designed that way, I think to make the back seat more open.

[Black Horse]

I don't know if you looked at the pics of the cage design but their heads are not close to any bar on the sides only forward off to the side next to the pillar which a seat belt would keep them from hitting. If I was in a side collision and that bar was not there I think the pillar is just as hard as a bar with all the layers and bends. I am a very protective dad and I just do not see a added risk.


I would hate to take bets that the simple seatbelt would protect a child from collision with the roll bar - I wish I could find a copy of the video I saw - you would not believe how far everything stretched during an accident - including your body.

I can't disagree with the potential of the injury due to the normal car side structure, however, the unibody type design will absorb impact within crumple zones - from both inside and out.

I'm not going to argue, I don't doubt the strength, all I ask is that you weigh the risks of your childs safety. Padding will not help - period. I just don't want to attend any more funerals except my own in about 50 more years.

Peace!

[Black Horse]

Hi
Good points... If I had a race car I would definately have all the safety equiptment... BUT I don't and I don't think we are talking apples and apples... Mine is a street car that is raced at test and tune... and I think that is what we are talking about.
Anyway my .02


Oh definately we are talking the same - if not worse. A dedicated race car is understood to need all the safety equip. and more. The worse scenario is racing a street car, or even spirited driving where you are not as protected.

The more I race, the more driving on the streets at 1/3 the speeds scares the crap out of me. I pretty well know what is going on around mewhen I am racing, when someone does something stupid, etc. - on the street or even test and tune I have no idea about the moron next to me, in front of me, or coming at me.

All I ask is that everyone thinks about the consequences of their actions.

[kennebellcobra]

I would hate to take bets that the simple seatbelt would protect a child from collision with the roll bar - I wish I could find a copy of the video I saw - you would not believe how far everything stretched during an accident - including your body.

I can't disagree with the potential of the injury due to the normal car side structure, however, the unibody type design will absorb impact within crumple zones - from both inside and out.

I'm not going to argue, I don't doubt the strength, all I ask is that you weigh the risks of your childs safety. Padding will not help - period. I just don't want to attend any more funerals except my own in about 50 more years.

Peace!

I'm not trying you argue with ya, you have some great points and I do drive extra carefull when the kids are in the Mustang:angel: . I hope people understand you can debate things and give different opinions and not get mad. It's all good;)

[Black Horse]

I agree! And by the way - great looking set-up, nice and clean!